It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

[Walpknut]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

 

[random234]

if 1/6 of the reviewers are critical of something it is certainly not doing VERY good.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

Yup, that's what I really hate about gaming today. To have niches in gaming isn't enough, no it has to be either action or bust! It's sad to see every decent franchise which started as RPGs or even Adventure games geting turned in to shooters. Hardcore shoote fans of course have no issue with that. What surprise. But if you ever talk about it, you're painted as elitist. Oh, you want to keep a genre/franchise pure? Curse you hipster! We're living in shoot-istan.

I always liked about gaming that it had a very huge diversity. Be it with RPGs, shooters, simulations, strategy games. You name it. I swear, as fucked up as the movie industry can be, but even they show more diversity today when it comes to block-buster productions.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

Yup, that's what I really hate about gaming today. To have niches in gaming isn't enough, no it has to be either action or bust! It's sad to see every decent franchise which started as RPGs or even Adventure games geting turned in to shooters. Hardcore shoote fans of course have no issue with that. What surprise. But if you ever talk about it, you're painted as elitist. Oh, you want to keep a genre/franchise pure? Curse you hipster! We're living in shoot-istan.

I always liked about gaming that it had a very huge diversity. Be it with RPGs, shooters, simulations, strategy games. You name it. I swear, as fucked up as the movie industry can be, but even they show more diversity today when it comes to block-buster productions.

The first game in a series is guaranteed to be the best and probably the only good one now. After that first innovative game enjoys some success, the businessmen come along and monetize everything and try to sell the sequels through increased marketing and cashing in on the success of the original.

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

Have they really? Because I'm not sure I've seen any demands like that before. Maybe I've seen people agree to or accept some of the changes after the fact, but I'm not sure I've seen people demand them beforehand. I find that gamers in particular don't care for too much change in any given series. Take Resident Evil for an example. Sure, 4 got a little bit more action orientated and I think people were mostly okay with it, but then 5 came along and people were a little more wary about it, and then it just seems like people did not like 6 because of the more action orientated changes and how changed it was from previous RE games.

Sure, you might get people saying that they don't like turn based games or X genre of games but i still don't think I've ever seen and outright demands to change a game from one genre to another.
But if you have, about how many gamers do you think it was? What percentage or what number? Was it a majority or a minority?

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

Have they really? Because I'm not sure I've seen any demands like that before. Maybe I've seen people agree to or accept some of the changes after the fact, but I'm not sure I've seen people demand them beforehand. I find that gamers in particular don't care for too much change in any given series. Take Resident Evil for an example. Sure, 4 got a little bit more action orientated and I think people were mostly okay with it, but then 5 came along and people were a little more wary about it, and then it just seems like people did not like 6 because of the more action orientated changes and how changed it was from previous RE games.

Sure, you might get people saying that they don't like turn based games or X genre of games but i still don't think I've ever seen and outright demands to change a game from one genre to another.
But if you have, about how many gamers do you think it was? What percentage or what number? Was it a majority or a minority?

If it was only a minority you wouldn't see so many games, including now Fallout, becoming exactly the same. It is clearly representative of a majority and probably what developers get from their focus groups.

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

Have they really? Because I'm not sure I've seen any demands like that before. Maybe I've seen people agree to or accept some of the changes after the fact, but I'm not sure I've seen people demand them beforehand. I find that gamers in particular don't care for too much change in any given series. Take Resident Evil for an example. Sure, 4 got a little bit more action orientated and I think people were mostly okay with it, but then 5 came along and people were a little more wary about it, and then it just seems like people did not like 6 because of the more action orientated changes and how changed it was from previous RE games.

Sure, you might get people saying that they don't like turn based games or X genre of games but i still don't think I've ever seen and outright demands to change a game from one genre to another.
But if you have, about how many gamers do you think it was? What percentage or what number? Was it a majority or a minority?

If it was only a minority you wouldn't see so many games, including now Fallout, becoming exactly the same. It is clearly representative of a majority and probably what developers get from their focus groups.

Yes, a lot of people like action games, but are they actually making demands that games change into action games?

 

[fakeangel]

Real time action is less arcane than any sort of turn-based affair, so there is a bigger market willing to try it. It has nothing to do with one being dumber than the other, as proved by the brutal difficulty of the soul series.

 

[Walpknut]

]Yes, a lot of people like action games, but are they actually making demands that games change into action games?

Constantly. People were complaining already about Persona 5 keeping the turn based combat and people keep demanding Pokemon switch to an action oriented gameplay for years. Many people even refused to play Stick of Truth because of the Turn Based combat or held it against it as a negative.

This is a constant with the modern gaming public, some will even claim that anything that isn't 3D is also anticuated.

 

[zegh8578]

Yes, a lot of people like action games, but are they actually making demands that games change into action games?

These companies aren't noobs, they know exactly where to go for their feedback. They'll google stuff up, youtube stuff up, browse forums, social media sites, and so on. They know exactly what people ask for, and then it's simply a matter of math.
A big bunch of people complained that the dialog in FO3 was too dumbed down - but a yet bigger bunch cried about having to read words and letters which ruined their shooting-fun. Bigger numbers win.

So, it's not about players "making demands" in a formal or official way, but about these companies simply being good at collecting their feedback, from every corner they can find it, and then making statistics and numbers out of it, so they can earn more for their next game.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Don't you hate how so many "gamers" always demand everything be turned into an action game? It's almost as if they feel they aren't pandered enough, not a single turn based game can exist because they don't like those and they make stupid statements like "Turn based is the way of the past" or "Turn Based is never interesting". "Gamer culture" has become meathead central...

Have they really? Because I'm not sure I've seen any demands like that before. Maybe I've seen people agree to or accept some of the changes after the fact, but I'm not sure I've seen people demand them beforehand. I find that gamers in particular don't care for too much change in any given series. Take Resident Evil for an example. Sure, 4 got a little bit more action orientated and I think people were mostly okay with it, but then 5 came along and people were a little more wary about it, and then it just seems like people did not like 6 because of the more action orientated changes and how changed it was from previous RE games.

Sure, you might get people saying that they don't like turn based games or X genre of games but i still don't think I've ever seen and outright demands to change a game from one genre to another.
But if you have, about how many gamers do you think it was? What percentage or what number? Was it a majority or a minority?

If it was only a minority you wouldn't see so many games, including now Fallout, becoming exactly the same. It is clearly representative of a majority and probably what developers get from their focus groups.

Yes, a lot of people like action games, but are they actually making demands that games change into action games?

They are making "market demands" for it. No, there isn't some contingent of people banging on Bethesda's doors demanding an FPS shoot-em-up COD style Fallout game. But the people who enjoy these games comprise the majority of the consumer demographic as far as I know. Thus, the market demand for these types of games is much higher, and as a result when a development studio becomes a big business they immediately start pushing more and more of these games and less and less of what original fans enjoyed.

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

]Yes, a lot of people like action games, but are they actually making demands that games change into action games?

Constantly. People were complaining already about Persona 5 keeping the turn based combat and people keep demanding Pokemon switch to an action oriented gameplay for years. Many people even refused to play Stick of Truth because of the Turn Based combat or held it against it as a negative.

This is a constant with the modern gaming public, some will even claim that anything that isn't 3D is also anticuated.

Can't say anything about Persona because I don't and haven't followed that at all. But as for Pokemon, I've not seen that at all. (Granted I haven't kept up with that since the 3DS came out, so maybe that has changed more) I think maybe I've seen people say that it might be cool to have a 3D kinda real time type Pokemon game, (I think I might've even thought that at one time or another) but I don't think I've ever seen any demands to change the series to that type of game. I think there's a reason why every Pokemon game is basically the same, or pretty much the same formula (not counting the spin-offs) and why they're so numerous.

And as for the Stick of Truth, yeah, some people don't like turn based stuff and view that as a negative, right? Just like you might find somebody that doesn't like RTS but like turn-based. I guess they could have been specifically demanding the game be changed, but were they they actually demanding it be changed or were they just attributing the turn-based aspect as a negative? Because there is a distinction to be made there. (I can't say either way because I didn't keep up/care about that game either.)

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

These companies aren't noobs, they know exactly where to go for their feedback. They'll google stuff up, youtube stuff up, browse forums, social media sites, and so on. They know exactly what people ask for, and then it's simply a matter of math.
A big bunch of people complained that the dialog in FO3 was too dumbed down - but a yet bigger bunch cried about having to read words and letters which ruined their shooting-fun. Bigger numbers win.

So, it's not about players "making demands" in a formal or official way, but about these companies simply being good at collecting their feedback, from every corner they can find it, and then making statistics and numbers out of it, so they can earn more for their next game.

They are making "market demands" for it. No, there isn't some contingent of people banging on Bethesda's doors demanding an FPS shoot-em-up COD style Fallout game. But the people who enjoy these games comprise the majority of the consumer demographic as far as I know. Thus, the market demand for these types of games is much higher, and as a result when a development studio becomes a big business they immediately start pushing more and more of these games and less and less of what original fans enjoyed.

But if that's the case, then that's something completely different than what Walpknut initially wrote. Maybe that's what he meant, but that's not exactly what he wrote.

As for the market demands, yeah, that's the devs/publishers making those changes to the games/series based on what they think/know their sort of demographics want. (And in most cases them probably chasing the money) That's not anything on the gamers themselves as what it looks like Walpknut was saying.

 

[Walpknut]

Well if you literary don't keep up with anything then it's kind of hard to have a discussion with you.

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

Well if you literary don't keep up with anything then it's kind of hard to have a discussion with you.

So then was I actually wrong with regards to Pokemon? Were people making actual demands to change the stick of truth from turned based? I actually asked those questions to get answers so I could be informed about it. So do you have the answers to them?

For Pokemon, up until the 3Ds games I didn't see any of that, other than maybe what i mentioned. You said you have, so where did you see it? About how many people did you see demanding its change? Or what percentage? Was it a minority or a majority of people? Was it a very small minority or a vast majority, what kind of margins are we talking about here?

 

[Walpknut]

People have always been saying that Pokemon should become an action game since the Game Boy Advanced era, back then it was just to become Castlevania like, nowadays they are all about turnning it into Skyrim and such. No idea how you could've missed that at all. There are articles in game publications about it too....

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

People have always been saying that Pokemon should become an action game since the Game Boy Advanced era, back then it was just to become Castlevania like, nowadays they are all about turnning it into Skyrim and such. No idea how you could've missed that at all. There are articles in game publications about it too....

But like how many people? Was it just a handful, was it half, was it more than that? Or was it just the publications clamoring for it? And if it was a majority, why didn't that reflect in the game series? (Though maybe you could make the argument that the spin-offs were to help satiate that need. Who knows.)

I guess they could have been specifically demanding the game be changed, but were they they actually demanding it be changed or were they just attributing the turn-based aspect as a negative?

Also this question still, in regards to the Stick of truth, since you didn't answer it yet, and because as I said I don't know since I didn't keep up with it.

And what do you say about what I said about gamers generally not liking a lot of change in their game series? Do you find that to not be true?

 

[Walpknut]

How much is "half a handful"? You are asking me specific numbers? This has been a constant thing since the GBA. If you have missed it then you probably don't keep up with stuff.

The reason why it hasn't affected the main series is because it's a mostly Japan centric series and over there people don't have as much problem with turn based as the american public. Their obssesion is more with mobile games and that has actually started to affect the main series with them releasing already 2 pokemon mobile games molded after Candy Crush and Piccross....

Just look at the new South Park game, they apparently changed the combat system to be real time for the sequel and even ditched Obsidian in favor of an Ubisoft inhouse studio...

 

[fakeangel]

And sales of pokemon has mostly stayed the same since the GBA.

 

[Walpknut]

Actually they took a dive with the DS games. It went up a little with the last DS generation and stood there with the 3DS titles.