It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Akratus, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah agreed. I feared that too but now? Damn this was a turn around!
     
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  2. knightwhosayni

    knightwhosayni First time out of the vault

    5
    Nov 8, 2015
    I really really want to see what your son look like
     
  3. miceelf

    miceelf First time out of the vault

    36
    Nov 9, 2015
    This actually made me lol

    Such negativity. It's hard to understand why someone would dedicate time and effort to this cause.

    Anyone who knows this forum is aware of its reputation. Threads like this only serve to enshrine your already rotten rep in the wider gaming community. Nothing is coming tumbling down, tumbling down. Nothing at all. Give it a few months and the game will be patched, a general consensus of opinion will develop regarding the game's overall place in the Bethesda series of open world games (i.e. probably not the best but still worth playing), and you will still pine for the mythical Fallout game you somehow feel that you deserve. As if someone deserves something just because they're a fan of it.

    Perhaps it's an overused or overly sentimental point, but the bile spewed in these threads - and the exaggerated insults directed towards the developers and the game generally - seem to ignore the fact that actual human beings worked on this game (and indeed Fallout 3). Genuinely talented people will have worked hard to deliver something they truly care about and believe in. Perhaps it's not what you want. Perhaps it ruins the concept you hold of what a Fallout game should be. Those feelings are clearly genuine. But so are the feelings of people who work on creative projects, people want the wider public to enjoy their game. That's real and you crap all over that at every opportunity you get. Criticizing corporate decisions and bullshit is fine, but companies are made up of people, and people deserve at least a modicum of respect, even from you.
     
  4. phipboy

    phipboy Newly elected overseer

    209
    Oct 2, 2015
    First of all, I want to see these "exaggerated insults" because I somehow doubt you've even been to this forum enough if you think we don't respect people AS PEOPLE.

    No fucking shit most people here respect them as humans or whatever the fuck you're saying. We don't really "respect" and have no reason to respect them as developers however. Where's the problem here, huh? Honestly, who said we don't respect them as humans? Just making shit up?

    "people want the wider public to enjoy their game. That's real and you crap all over that at every opportunity you get." - What's wrong with that?

    Seriously if you don't like this forum, then tell us why other forums are somehow better... because... they praise everything BGS does? Because, what, they disagree with the general opinion of NMA and call us the "ISIS of Fallout communities"(Real quote, not joking)?

    E: This whole groupthink/hivemind mentality is honestly a bunch of bullshit. You should be glad "we're" a more mature community who doesn't go out of their way to talk shit about other communities.

    E2: The reason this community has a rotten reputation is usually because people who don't frequent here or don't even know anything about this community and make stupid assumptions are fucking ignorant. Thought that didn't need to be said but you don't seem to be very observant so just helping you out (and don't take this as an insult, that's just stupid)
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  5. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    And this is NMA standard issue butthurt comment. Welcome here!
     
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  6. Wetpig

    Wetpig First time out of the vault

    4
    Nov 2, 2015
    I signed the petition!

    This has to be the most mundane thing ive played in a while i didnt think about it before i got my hands on the game just how much the lack of actually choosing what you say would affect the game. Take fallout 3 for instance yes it was extremely unremarkable but at least it was interesting in the fact THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY SAY WHAT YOU WANTED (to an extent of course) Not have an american scrub talking for you and thats what made me just wipe the game off my computer after about 30 minutes i had absolutely no interest in what he was saying because it wasnt me saying any of it the roleplaying aspect has just been gutted in its entirety nows its a PG a Playing Game AWESOME!
     
  7. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    Oh dear, have the defenders started appearing?

    To all Bethesda defenders and people who think Fallout 3 and 4 were God's Gift to Moses. Just don't bother. You're wasting your own time and ours. Our opinions weren't changed in 2008, why the hell do you think you'll be able to change them now?

    Honestly, I think anyone coming HERE to defend Fallout 4 is just a bored teenage troll at this point. It'd be nice if we just had a policy to ignore them entirely whenever they turn up.
     
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  8. miceelf

    miceelf First time out of the vault

    36
    Nov 9, 2015

    I posted previously under a different username, grew tired of the community after a while and floated back to see if anything might have changed in the preceding few years. Alas the Fallout/NMA groundhog day is repeating itself in all its glorious insanity.

    TBF some of the debate here is fairly interesting when it comes to game design philosophy. But you can also get that elsewhere - and in real life! - without the crushing, predictable rage towards certain games and developers.

    It's honestly sad that you can't respect the hard work and endeavour of others (and now I'm addressing you, not NMA as a community). You should respect even people you disagree with. In fact, you should respect them especially. If you don't have your assumptions challenged, you'll never grow as a person. You'll stay in the same limbo as this community. Also, respect is a sign of empathy. A lack of empathy is a sign of psychopath. But then again I suppose obsessing over a situation that hasn't changed since 2008 could also fall under that classification.

    And to the other dude that piped up, where did I defend Fallout 4? I've only played two hours. I have no opinion yet.

    And BTW that petition is beyond words. I'd love to be able to come up with a withering insult towards it, but nothing I can come up with does it justice. Just plain perfection.
     
  9. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Respect is something you earn, it is not something you're entitled to. Just cause someone works hard does not mean that what they are working hard towards is worth respecting. Hard work as a concept is something I can respect, but when it comes to a specific individual then I also have to factor in what kind of hard work they put in and what they put it in towards. If I find myself at odds with the latter then they are not worthy of my respect. Everyone does not deserve respect and everyone is not 'entitled' to respect.
     
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  10. phipboy

    phipboy Newly elected overseer

    209
    Oct 2, 2015
    Nothing but assumptions and conjecture. We're done here.

    I didn't even say anything about me respecting something or other. Again, making shit up. Assumptions. You're not even really answering my questions.

    Also no, you're wrong. This community has changed A LOT since 2008. You're the one making assumptions since you haven't even fucking been here for 5+ years (nor have I but I know how things go around here). No clue what you even mean by "If you don't have your assumptions challanged" because "we're" not making any assumptions here.

    E: BTW, the petition is just to let Obsidian make Fallout games... What the hell is wrong with it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  11. miceelf

    miceelf First time out of the vault

    36
    Nov 9, 2015
    I suppose we differ on that point, but I can respect your point of view (boom boom). But seriously, that's fair enough and we differ on that point. I try to respect people until they lose it, rather than the other way around. Especially when it comes down to creative work like artworking, 3D design, animation and especially writing. There's even a certain art to strong project management or man management. Plus the video game industry is renowned for poor working conditions. Knowing a few devs personally, you see the long hours they put in. And the money isn't great. I choose to respect game developers for those reasons, even if they sometimes make games that aren't very good.

    One point I keep returning to when I think on this subject is that I don't think there are very many devs out there who would knowingly make a crap game. Poor business decisions and corporate greed definitely can result in a crap game. But I don't think a dev has ever rubbed their hands together with glee thinking 'I can't wait to disappoint those fans'. People aren't built like that.
     
  12. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    I think this is the wrong perspective. Everybody is entitled to a certain base level of respect; regardless of how much I personally dislike Todd Howard I should not threaten him, harass him, tell him to eat ground glass, or whatever. He's a person who is paid to do a job by an employer and I have no right to demand things from him. That does not mean, however, that I have to like or appreciate the game that he and his team made.

    Everybody working at Bethesda (and everybody else) is entitled to basic human respect and decent treatment, but I don't have to like them or like what they do.
     
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  13. phipboy

    phipboy Newly elected overseer

    209
    Oct 2, 2015
    When I say "them" I mean the majority of Bethesda Game Studios, not just some random developer indie or otherwise that you may know. Majority, as in not the art team for example, that are easily the most talented people over at BGS. Writers, designers etc. Not as much. They probably get paid a lot so I don't think "poor working conditions" are a problem for them.
     
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  14. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    Most everybody in the video game industry could get paid more doing what they do in a different line of work (exception people like Carmack). They work in games because they love games. In AAA especially, excessive unpaid overtime is more or less expected in the last several months before the product is completed, which isn't something you'd have to put up with if you were writing accounting software, say.

    People in the industry also get regularly laid off after projects are completed at an alarming rate. I mean, look at what happened at Irrational: the team makes a critically and financially successful game, and Ken Levine shuts down the whole studio because he's bored.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
  15. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    They did it better, before Ted Peterson and Julian "TES Father" Lefay have left the company and little Todd has grabbed the steering wheel. Since then I don't trust their competence as a game developers anymore.
     
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  16. phipboy

    phipboy Newly elected overseer

    209
    Oct 2, 2015
    Yup. Exactly. I don't think anyone here doesn't have respect for them AS HUMANS. Unless they've committed murder or something, which they haven't. At least not another person, but a videogame franchise :(
     
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  17. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    I wouldn't call that "respect" though. If I meet someone I don't respect them and I don't disrespect them either. They're open for evaluation. It does not mean I think less of people I haven't met. I just don't think that the word "respect" should be thrown around like that, it makes it meaningless. I wouldn't say that not treating people I've just me like shit is me respecting them. It's just me not being an asshole.

    I'd say everyone is entitled to be treated with decency.
    I think that's a better word for it.

    The definition of Respect according to Merriam-Webster is:
    : a feeling of admiring someone or something that is good, valuable, important, etc.


    : a feeling or understanding that someone or something is important, serious, etc., and should be treated in an appropriate way


    : a particular way of thinking about or looking at something
    The first definition is the one I use the word "respect" for.

    The second definition I don't really like, I understand that Joe the plumber is important to someone in this world of ours. So I understand that there is an importance to him, maybe not to me but to someone else. But I won't say I "respect him" for that. Sure, I understand that he's important to someone and he should be treated appropriately. But isn't that just human decency? Isn't that just ethical behaviour? Isn't that just empathy? Why would I waste the word "respect" on something I can use other words for? No, respect means one thing for me and that's the way I use it. I don't care about the second definition. But it does not mean that disagree with the idea behind, as you'll see in the paragraph below this one.

    And the third definition I don't understand and I dunno if I care to understand it either.

    Respect is a sense of admiration for me. That is how I define the word and will continue to define the word. So no, respect is most definitely not something you are entitled to, you have to earn admiration/respect. But being treated as a human being? Being treated as an equal? Being treated with empathy? Being treated decently? None of that has anything to do with the word respect to me. So when I say that no one is entitled to respect I do not mean that no on deserves to be treated as a human being, that no one deserves to be treated as an equal, that no one deserves to be treated with empathy, that no one deserves to be treated decently. It simply means I do not think anyone is worthy of admiration until they've proven themselves worthy of it.

    [edit]

    Don't get me wrong. I understand that I don't get to dictate what words mean and if you think that respect also means what the second definition says it does then that's fine. But just cause I disagree with respect having that definition does not mean I disagree with the idea behind it. I hate it when a word has two completely different meanings. My point with this addendum is this: In the future, if I ever use the word respect then I mean the first definition of the word. I don't use "respect" as the second definition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  18. miceelf

    miceelf First time out of the vault

    36
    Nov 9, 2015
    This is just a difference of opinion in terms of how you approach interaction. Some people treat everyone they meet as if they're someone deserving of admiration and respect. Others remain neutral until they get a hold of someone's personality or traits. Whereas some choose to have disdain for people. I think the people that really get places in life are the ones that treat everyone with respect until proven otherwise. But you're free to take a different approach.
     
  19. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    I don't get how you can approach random people with "admiration", what is there to admire? Their nosehair?

    [edit]

    Actually, here's a simpler explanation of my previous post: I agree with the sentiment behind your use of the word "respect", I just don't agree with your definition of the word respect. Everyone does deserve to be entitled with the sentiment of your definition of respect, but everyone (IMO) does not deserve to be entitled to my definition of respect.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  20. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    "I think the people that really get places in life are the ones that treat everyone with respect until proven otherwise."

    Oh my, how naive.
     
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