Kotaku profiles No Mutants Allowed and hating Fallout 3

[sesom]

I find it funny that there are people out there [droves apparently] who think it perfectly fine and normal to re-brand an entirely unrelated product as something it's not... and that to complain about it is to be closed minded. Now we all know that this only goes one way with them... We are seen as at fault because we oppose the inflicted shift from what we value ~towards what they value; even though it's produced by destroying what we value; and we are seen as closed minded for opposing that. Bah! To me it's like if Bethesda bought a water park and turned it into mini-golf ~kept the name, and all the minigolf fans deride the protesters as being closed minded and unreasonable.

I find it funny too on the other side that there are people out there who judge in every detail a game that they didn't even play much and actually don't know much about it execpt what they got from wrong hearsay.

 

[fred2]

On a unrelated note*, those of who like to let loose their creative juices and Fallout theories, might want to try their luck at the Fallout theory challenge.

* not sure where else this fits, and couldn't be bothered to start a thread for a one liner..

 

[PossibleCabbage]

I find it funny too on the other side that there are people out there who judge in every detail a game that they didn't even play much and actually don't know much about it execpt what they got from wrong hearsay.

I've actually played Fallout 3 several times from front to finish. After Fo4 was announced I started playing it again in order to see if there was anything good about it that I was forgetting. I ran out of stuff to do that wasn't the main plot though, so I uninstalled the game. The atmosphere of the game when you're not doing anything in particular is very good in spots (though the "Raiders are sadistic cannibal perverts" thing is vastly overdone) but everything else could really use some work. The actual story is just insultingly bad.

 

[Moosick]

let's be honest though the rapey monster raiders is a direct lift from Humongous + co and imo they did that alright. But yeah the wandering aspect of F3 is rock solid.

 

[sesom]

I find it funny too on the other side that there are people out there who judge in every detail a game that they didn't even play much and actually don't know much about it execpt what they got from wrong hearsay.

I've actually played Fallout 3 several times from front to finish. After Fo4 was announced I started playing it again in order to see if there was anything good about it that I was forgetting. I ran out of stuff to do that wasn't the main plot though, so I uninstalled the game. The atmosphere of the game when you're not doing anything in particular is very good in spots (though the "Raiders are sadistic cannibal perverts" thing is vastly overdone) but everything else could really use some work. The actual story is just insultingly bad.

Are you Gizmo? ( I was refering to some conversations we had in the past on other forums. But he isn't alone as I sadly recognized there.)

 

[Crni Vuk]

let's be honest though the rapey monster raiders is a direct lift from Humongous + co and imo they did that alright. But yeah the wandering aspect of F3 is rock solid.

Yeah, but that is a rather comical view on raiders in the Fallout universe. I mean it would have been nice if they took their time to design a few factions here. Some raiders might be the humongous type that has their pleasure in eating wastelanders. Others might be a bit different and maybe even reasonable. It would go a long way to not make them just generic enemies that shoot you at every sight. THe best part is that F3 has even some area full of raiders that feels more like a town than Rivet city ... the camp with the Behemothmutant inside.

 

[Gizmojunk]

( I was refering to some conversations we had in the past on other forums. But he isn't alone as I sadly recognized there.)

Once you play it enough, you don't have to play all of it, and one can get parts that they missed of it on Youtube.

FO3 lost me the first time I had the PC activate the toilet in the Vault 101 restroom; (think about that)... In the vault with sinks, and a working diner; in a relatively easy [more or less clean] lifestyle, and even a recent birthday party... and Bethesda allowed that the PC would drink from the vault toilet with full hand to bowl, to mouth animation). That speaks volumes to me.

 

[Walpknut]

"you haven't played it enough" oh believe us, we have played it, that's how we came to the conclusions, actually I played Fallout 3 when it came out. I spent a whole lot of time into it, then a friend convinced me to play Fallout 1, then 2, then I just couldn't stand it anymore....

I find that kind of accusation kind of hilarious to be used in here....

 

[SnapSlav]

It disheartens me whenever I read more and more people say that the old gameplay is "unplayable", when really that just means they're unwilling to adjust. But what can you do? It's the never-ending cycle of life and young vs old.

We usually think that that our golden years games are nothing but hits, but lets be honest with exception of few games like FO that aged well (especially if modded) most didn't. And without the nostalgia googles they provide tooth grinding interface and subpar gameplay (like most strategy, FPS...).

We live in a day and age where HIGHLY popular games reviewers and let's players like Game Grumps, Jon Tron Show, and others all endeavor to SHOWCASE older games. So it's not an issue of nostalgia goggles, because we can see the games for what they are. We can witness them perform and appreciate or loath them for what they offer. And all too often we discover that these old games STILL hold up. Yes, not all of them, but that was never my point. It was the average "climate" of games that was so different, and what that did to gamers of the time.

When you had a relatively simple task ahead of you, but daunting because they made it challenging as a gate to prevent the game from being over too quickly, players would keep coming back not because they enjoyed punishing themselves, but rather because they wanted that achievement of surpassing this major hurdle. Compare that attitude with your average gamer of today, who is coddled by tutorials (admittedly out of somewhat of a necessity, because the push to make "more, new, interesting gameplay" means more controls to cover in elaborate tutorials) and almost always has a guiding hand telling them where to go and what to do, they find themselves unwilling to play a game the moment it offers them a single hurdle, because they're just not used to being pushed to figure something out on their own. Just look at the React Gaming channel for some nauseating examples of this. Gamers losing to Glass Joe. Gamers losing on the first screen of Mega Man IV. They're so clueless because they're used to a narrator or menu telling them what to do; it never occurs to them that the GAME ITSELF is what's teaching them how to play, and that they need to apply some very basic logic to the problems before them in order to solve them.

They're not inherently stupider than their predecessors, but they are so supremely spoiled, they have no idea what they're doing if you leave them on their own...

There are still plenty of games that can kick your ass. They are just a little harder to find and not as popular usually. I'm amazed that Dark Souls is allowed to exist tbh. There are a lot of Roguelikes that have popped up in recent years, so that is a positive sign.

And this is where I chime in to be there bearer of bad news... Dark Souls was such a massive hit BECAUSE it was an easymode game.

Not even joking. Those few of us in the Souls community who started out with Demon's Souls took audible notice of all the streamlinings and changes made from prequel to sequel that made DkS a much easier title. These, however, were compounded by patch after patch that didn't settle with fixing glitches (a wonderful thing, mind you) but INSISTED on adding features and changes that killed what little challenge the game offered. It really is an easy game, when you get down to the objective details... comparatively speaking. If your measuring stick is most modern games, then yes, DkS looks like a diamond in the rough as far as difficulty goes. But up against its predecessors, it's agonizingly easy. Many of us jeered that it was a casual game, because of how far the patches took it.

In short, it exists because it made unnecessary concessions about its difficulty and it gave up much of them in favor of appealing to more, whinier, spoiled, easily-frightened-by-challenge gamers.

Now Demon's Souls, on the other hand..... Well, it's an obscure title. So there should be no surprise. Arguably the best in the series, and it's the least popular. =/

 

[TorontoReign]

Dark Souls was easy compared to Demon Souls, yes. They had to dumb it down a lot to gain a larger audience. That doesn't change the fact that Dark Souls is one of the more challenging series released in recent years. Not including Roguelikes of course. Demon Souls is obscure because it is only for the PS3. I'm no expert on the series, I've only played Demon Souls, but I do know they have made it easier with every new title. I am measuring it's difficulty compared to most modern games, as you also said. There just aren't that many titles that punish you like that anymore. You have to actively seek them out, usually in specific genres.

 

[peadar87]

( I was refering to some conversations we had in the past on other forums. But he isn't alone as I sadly recognized there.)

Once you play it enough, you don't have to play all of it, and one can get parts that they missed of it on Youtube.

FO3 lost me the first time I had the PC activate the toilet in the Vault 101 restroom; (think about that)... In the vault with sinks, and a working diner; in a relatively easy [more or less clean] lifestyle, and even a recent birthday party... and Bethesda allowed that the PC would drink from the vault toilet with full hand to bowl, to mouth animation). That speaks volumes to me.

So? FO1 allows you to go back to Vault 13 and start shooting people in the groin. Plenty wrong with FO3, but being allowed to drink from a toilet when it doesn't strictly make sense is riiiiiiight down at the bottom of the list.

 

[Moosick]

i don't see what the problem is, to be frank. You're in the bathroom, you've just had a massive dump, you want a drink. I do it every day. Helps if you use a straw.

 

[Crni Vuk]

( I was refering to some conversations we had in the past on other forums. But he isn't alone as I sadly recognized there.)

Once you play it enough, you don't have to play all of it, and one can get parts that they missed of it on Youtube.

FO3 lost me the first time I had the PC activate the toilet in the Vault 101 restroom; (think about that)... In the vault with sinks, and a working diner; in a relatively easy [more or less clean] lifestyle, and even a recent birthday party... and Bethesda allowed that the PC would drink from the vault toilet with full hand to bowl, to mouth animation). That speaks volumes to me.

So? FO1 allows you to go back to Vault 13 and start shooting people in the groin. Plenty wrong with FO3, but being allowed to drink from a toilet when it doesn't strictly make sense is riiiiiiight down at the bottom of the list.

I think you missunderstand his intention.

It is more that doing it speaks for the mentality of the game and the priority of the developers. See, we are talking about people that have absolutely zero problem to admit that story telling has to take a backseet to the so called exploration part of the game. Imagine if someone told you that the driving mechanics in the racing sim had to take a back seet because they wanted to make the course as pretty as possible. Well and the drink-water-out-of-toilets is a mechanic Fallout 3 that doesn't even play any kind relevance. Like none. Neither do you really need water nor does it even really give you much in HP regeneration. So ... it's just absolutely whacky content for the sake of doing it. And yet someone had to spend time to make the animation and the other parts. For something that has absolutely zero relevance. But... pfff! Story telling? Who cares about that. Here! Better take another sipp out of the toilet in your vault, maybe if you get enough you will forget about nonsense like story, lore and the like.

 

[sesom]

I think you missunderstand his intention.

It is more that doing it speaks for the mentality of the game and the priority of the developers. See, we are talking about people that have absolutely zero problem to admit that story telling has to take a backseet to the so called exploration part of the game. Imagine if someone told you that the driving mechanics in the racing sim had to take a back seet because they wanted to make the course as pretty as possible. Well and the drink-water-out-of-toilets is a mechanic Fallout 3 that doesn't even play any kind relevance. Like none. Neither do you really need water nor does it even really give you much in HP regeneration. So ... it's just absolutely whacky content for the sake of doing it. And yet someone had to spend time to make the animation and the other parts. For something that has absolutely zero relevance. But... pfff! Story telling? Who cares about that. Here! Better take another sipp out of the toilet in your vault, maybe if you get enough you will forget about nonsense like story, lore and the like.

Yeah Bethesda spent thousends of hours getting the toilett drink animation right and didn't use the the normal drinking one. It has cost them millions to get this as they wanted too. It was absolut essential to get it right.

Sorry here you talk nonsens.

It was a simple to setup joke that takes 10 seconds in geck (copy activator script from sink). But NMA myths will never change.

 

[sesom]

"you haven't played it enough" oh believe us, we have played it, that's how we came to the conclusions, actually I played Fallout 3 when it came out. I spent a whole lot of time into it, then a friend convinced me to play Fallout 1, then 2, then I just couldn't stand it anymore....

I find that kind of accusation kind of hilarious to be used in here....

Oh I mentioned you personally? I didn't made a snarky comment about Gizmo (as answer to his snarky comment) who admitted several times that he doesn't know actually what he criticises (and has excellent youtube LP knowledge, as he says here himself, that has to be respected).... I made a long deailed analysis of every NMA user and how they played FO3 in writing:

I find it funny too on the other side that there are people out there who judge in every detail a game that they didn't even play much and actually don't know much about it execpt what they got from wrong hearsay.

&

( I was refering to some conversations we had (Gizmo meant) in the past on other forums. But he isn't alone as I sadly recognized there.)

Yeah what evil person I am. Not even talking about NMA (except Gizmo) here .

 

[Crni Vuk]

I think you missunderstand his intention.

It is more that doing it speaks for the mentality of the game and the priority of the developers. See, we are talking about people that have absolutely zero problem to admit that story telling has to take a backseet to the so called exploration part of the game. Imagine if someone told you that the driving mechanics in the racing sim had to take a back seet because they wanted to make the course as pretty as possible. Well and the drink-water-out-of-toilets is a mechanic Fallout 3 that doesn't even play any kind relevance. Like none. Neither do you really need water nor does it even really give you much in HP regeneration. So ... it's just absolutely whacky content for the sake of doing it. And yet someone had to spend time to make the animation and the other parts. For something that has absolutely zero relevance. But... pfff! Story telling? Who cares about that. Here! Better take another sipp out of the toilet in your vault, maybe if you get enough you will forget about nonsense like story, lore and the like.

Yeah Bethesda spent thousends of hours getting the toilett drink animation right and didn't use the the normal drinking one. It has cost them millions to get this as they wanted too. It was absolut essential to get it right.

Sorry here you talk nonsens.

It was a simple to setup joke that takes 10 seconds in geck (copy activator script from sink). But NMA myths will never change.

Nonsense? Maybe.

But it is a fact that the game has a toilet/water drinking animation that serves absolutely zero purpose, but on the other side a story that absolutely sucks ass.

It is just a symptom of a much bigger problem as far as Beth games goes, and that goes as far back to Oblivion where the team around Todd loves to spend so incredible much time on details that have absolutely no meaning to the gameplay. But at least you can now pick up garden gnomes and throw the dishes around. And it is even fun how many players actually get ... into that. Must be some kind of compulsive dissorder? Picking up every piece of junk to store it in the players home.

 

[sesom]

Nonsense? Maybe.

But it is a fact that the game has a toilet/water drinking animation that serves absolutely zero purpose, but on the other side a story that absolutely sucks ass.

It is just a symptom of a much bigger problem as far as Beth games goes, and that goes as far back to Oblivion where the team around Todd loves to spend so incredible much time on details that have absolutely no meaning to the gameplay. But at least you can now pick up garden gnomes and throw the dishes around. And it is even fun how many players actually get ... into that. Must be some kind of compulsive dissorder? Picking up every piece of junk to store it in the players home.

Yeah never admit that you are wrong and that the animation is absolutely the same as all the drinking animations in the game , jokes aren't allowed in this 100% serious game series as we know. (actually you can heal with this water if you really want to, so absolute no purpose except joke is factually wrong).

Yeah and details are something terrible that have to be removed from the game. Like in NV where we end up with a boring world that you can only play with ignoring it (fasttravel) and yes all players who like FO3 have a compulsive dissorder, picking up every piece of junk to store it in the players home... come on...

Yes the main story of FO3 isn't the greatest and I don't like it too. Is it a bad game? Nope actually because of the attention to detail.

 

[Walpknut]

Sesom, do you even have anything to say at all? All I have seen you do is lurk in the same three threads throwing a fit over people not agreeing with you and just saying completely off topic and downright no nsensical stuff and you multi post like a complete noob. You kind of make the usual Bethesda fanboy that comes here look kind of intelligent in comparison...

 

[Crni Vuk]

Nonsense? Maybe.

But it is a fact that the game has a toilet/water drinking animation that serves absolutely zero purpose, but on the other side a story that absolutely sucks ass.

It is just a symptom of a much bigger problem as far as Beth games goes, and that goes as far back to Oblivion where the team around Todd loves to spend so incredible much time on details that have absolutely no meaning to the gameplay. But at least you can now pick up garden gnomes and throw the dishes around. And it is even fun how many players actually get ... into that. Must be some kind of compulsive dissorder? Picking up every piece of junk to store it in the players home.

Yeah never admit that you are wrong and that the animation is absolutely the same as all the drinking animations in the game , jokes aren't allowed in this 100% serious game series as we know. (actually you can heal with this water if you really want to, so absolute no purpose except joke is factually wrong).

Yeah and details are something terrible that have to be removed from the game. Like in NV where we end up with a boring world that you can only play with ignoring it (fasttravel) and yes all players who like FO3 have a compulsive dissorder, picking up every piece of junk to store it in the players home... come on...

Yes the main story of FO3 isn't the greatest and I don't like it too. Is it a bad game? Nope actually because of the attention to detail.

I believe Fallout 3 could have done with a few less jokes. The problem of the game really is not that it contains ... not enough of this so called jokes. The game is already one big whack-a-mole simulator. A bit more dark humor could not hurt either here, but that actually requires good writing. What you get most of the time instead is exploding heads, fatmans and garbage like little lamplight.

The important question again is why sacrifice story telling in an RPG for whacky stuff? I have yet to hear one compelling argument for it. I seriously never understand the appeal of making another Saints Row out of Fallout.

 

[TorontoReign]

Is Fallout 3 a bad game? No. Is it a good RPG? No. Is it a good Fallout game true to it's roots? No. Is it worth playing over Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, or New Vegas? No.