Kotaku profiles No Mutants Allowed and hating Fallout 3

I remember all of this well. Wasn't registered on here but have been lurking on this forum since 2003. I never played Fallout 3, so I can't judge it. I'm not into first person perspective style games, so that's what kept me from trying it, besides what I've read here wasn't too reassuring. I know there have been a bunch of mods made for it, so that might improve things, perhaps.
 
Mods never change the underlying game. They simply cover up its flaws.

It's one thing when a game is so amazing you would LOVE to see mods for it to make its greatness even greater. That's an already amazing game, after all. But a game that's just a "palette" for mods to make for interesting experiences, but itself is nothing special, is another matter entirely. A sup-par experience, at best, not to mention what else at worst. Every time I hear people praise games for being "fun when you mod it", it baffles me how the fact that the mods ARE NOT the underlying game escapes their notice. It's just a fundamental recognition of the facts, nothing more. It's not complicated, just simple recognition.

If a game is fun when it's modded, then that means the mods are fun. Not the game.

From what I hear (and have observed in many videos), FO3 is damn fun when it's modded to the point of being unrecognizable. But once more, that's the totality of all the mods being fun.
 
The only way Fallout 3 is fun now is with Tale of Two Wastelands (I still won't play it). Even the modders admit Fallout 3 is a broken mess as far as stability goes.
 
SnapSlav said:
It disheartens me whenever I read more and more people say that the old gameplay is "unplayable", when really that just means they're unwilling to adjust. But what can you do? It's the never-ending cycle of life and young vs old.
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We usually think that that our golden years games are nothing but hits, but lets be honest with exception of few games like FO that aged well (especially if modded) most didn't. And without the nostalgia googles they provide tooth grinding interface and subpar gameplay (like most strategy, FPS...).

Today there are soo many new games and not enough time to play even the best of them, so its not about adjusting but whether you should put the effort, and this is should be answered on per person\game basis. For example I have no intention playing Wasteland 1, it plays worse then my school project..
 
I am waiting for the Frontier Mod those guys are making, looks almost like a freacking official DLC (and beyond) with all the stuff they are adding to it.
 
fred2 said:
SnapSlav said:
It disheartens me whenever I read more and more people say that the old gameplay is "unplayable", when really that just means they're unwilling to adjust. But what can you do? It's the never-ending cycle of life and young vs old.
Click to expand...

We usually think that that our golden years games are nothing but hits, but lets be honest with exception of few games like FO that aged well (especially if modded) most didn't. And without the nostalgia googles they provide tooth grinding interface and subpar gameplay (like most strategy, FPS...).

Today there are soo many new games and not enough time to play even the best of them, so its not about adjusting but whether you should put the effort, and this is should be answered on per person\game basis. For example I have no intention playing Wasteland 1, it plays worse then my school project..
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I would argue that more games have aged well than you think. Classic arcade games are damn near timeless. A lot of the old console games are timeless. They have no outstanding game mechanics that haven't been used consistently since their inception. Most gamers can understand the games whether they have played them or not. Some of the early 3D games have aged horribly, but even then there are exceptions. Mario 64 might not be as innovative now as it was then, but it is still fun as fuck. Otherwise we wouldn't be getting Mario 64 for the 3DS, or Majora's Mask, or Resident Evil Remake, or HD versions of PS2 games, or Rare Replay...

I didn't play Wasteland when it came out other than watching my uncle play it briefly, yet the interface is not beyond my grasp. It might be a slog, might even have to use a walkthrough, but it is possible. Modern gamers don't want to admit it, but the games today have been simplified for accessibility, whereas in the past they were often intended to be hard to milk your money. Over time they were slowly lessened in difficulty to where they weren't unfair yet they could still beat your ass depending on the title. Something I prefer. The shift from arcade ports to standalone console titles had something to do with that. Nintendo hard became Nintedon't-be-too-rough. Now Nintendo gives you free power-ups in Mario if you die too much. :whatever:


The problem with gamers today (back in my day sonny) is they cannot easily adapt to new control schemes. I had a friend that came over the other night who tried to play Mario Kart using the Gamepad. I shit you not, he ran into the rails the whole time. I'm not even being hyperbolic. He literally ran into the rail the whole time. The Gamepad has the exact same controls except it looks different. I couldn't believe it. I laughed my ass off. I even tried to help but he would slide off the rail onto the road and right back into it. I've seen 5 year old kids use the damn thing easier.
 
fred2 said:
We usually think that that our golden years games are nothing but hits, but lets be honest with exception of few games like FO that aged well (especially if modded) most didn't. And without the nostalgia googles they provide tooth grinding interface and subpar gameplay (like most strategy, FPS...).
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There is no such thing as nostalgia goggles ~when dealing with fans that generally still have the games installed, and can directly compare them with recent ones. I would put Monolith's Blood against any shooter made since; (including other games by Monolith).

Today there are soo many new games and not enough time to play even the best of them, so its not about adjusting but whether you should put the effort, and this is should be answered on per person\game basis. For example I have no intention playing Wasteland 1, it plays worse then my school project..
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Most of the best are not worth playing.
 
TorontRayne said:
Modern gamers don't want to admit it, but the games today have been simplified for accessibility, whereas in the past they were often intended to be hard to milk your money.
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I agree that ever since gaming became mainstream a lot of games has been adapted to fit causal market and being made more accessible and sometimes simplified. But not all games, most of my favorite strategy and management games are "modern".

But on topic of games that "intended to be hard to milk your money", i'll just leave this for your consideration:

 
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fred2 said:
TorontRayne said:
Modern gamers don't want to admit it, but the games today have been simplified for accessibility, whereas in the past they were often intended to be hard to milk your money.
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I agree that ever since gaming became mainstream a lot of games has been adapted to fit causal market and being made more accessible and sometimes simplified. But not all games, most of my favorite strategy and management games are "modern".

But on topic of games that "intended to be hard to milk your money", i'll just leave this for your consideration:

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Not all games, no. There are still plenty of games that can kick your ass. They are just a little harder to find and not as popular usually. I'm amazed that Dark Souls is allowed to exist tbh. There are a lot of Roguelikes that have popped up in recent years, so that is a positive sign.
 
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The video is thirty minutes long and he's can sound very annoying at times, but replacing 'morrowind' with 'fallout 1/2' and 'skyrim' with 'fallout 3' and it's a similar enough thing. The point is apposite for Bethedsa's attitude to game making, anyway.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
Walpknut said:
Isn't it funny how the people who refuse to play older games are the ones who throw the "close minded" line all the time?
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It kinda feels like that ...
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It reminds me of some discussions on Beth forum.

You present an idea and are answered with one sentence.
You present an argument and are answered with the same first sentence.
You present a new argument that debunk that sentence and are answered by that sentence again.
You present another new argument and are answered by that sentence again...
Sometimes, the thread is closed after seven pages, and someone open another thread to continue the discussion.
Half of the comments are still the same answer, that lost relevance in the first few pages of the first thread.
Like repeating the same thing ad nauseum make it become true...
 
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TorontRayne said:
Not all games, no. There are still plenty of games that can kick your ass. They are just a little harder to find and not as popular usually. I'm amazed that Dark Souls is allowed to exist tbh. There are a lot of Roguelikes that have popped up in recent years, so that is a positive sign.
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My first major shooter fascination was Wolfenstein 3D, I spent hours searching for all the secret rooms and trying to make perfect runs. It was a lot of fun, but in-hindsight what a huge waste of time. Since then I have spent less and less with every subsequent shooter, because even if they have some unique concept\mechanic I can't get over the feeling that I been there done that and can't care less! Unlike deep strategy, management and <strike>Action</strike>-RPGs I play.

Personally, I feel the same about Arcades and Roguelikes, to me its the equivalent of cellphone games you play while stuck inline on parked on the stool... just something to fill the time, where the challenge is as rewarding as 'kill x creatures' achievement verity...

So for example while I played FO:NV and PoE I don't feel the need to waste time proving that I can beat them on hardcore and path of demand. I already had an amazing run with couple of friend playing survival in DayZ, feeding myself in the mojave is just annoying, and in PoE I'd rather spend my little gaming time roleplaying another few character using a different pathes then hacking pointless encounters in path of demand. I suppose am pretty much what some call a casual player.. Although we tend to make fantastic playthroughs with some of paradox titles.


Walpknut said:
Isn't it funny how the people who refuse to play older games are the ones who throw the "close minded" line all the time?
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Out of interest who thrown that comment here? Also FYI I am older then you and even though I grew up in poor neighborhood where we knew people by their gaming collection, still I probably played more older games then you.
 
I agree with others here. It felt lacking. In order to truly understand the anger, they should have elaborated on the many instances of clueless apologists. One of the primary examples of how clueless fucktards told us if we supported POS, we would get something like the originals. In actuality, fucking Ineptplay was already preparing to churn out POS 2. Another is how time and time again, apologists came here and told us we were wrong about F3 and how it wasn't really 'Oblivion with guns", we all know how that one turned out. Lastly, when the Mass Effect 3 ending came out, everyone gave Bioware shit deservedly for trying to pull same flavored ice cream with different colors ending. This guy forgets to mention how absolutely lazy and shitty the ending to F3 was. How about the Super Mutants AKA Orcs or the feral ghouls AKA zombies?

Just glossing over those details with 'F3 was a different kind of game than the originals is a bit simplistic", is unfortunate.
 
TorontRayne said:
The only way Fallout 3 is fun now is with Tale of Two Wastelands (I still won't play it). Even the modders admit Fallout 3 is a broken mess as far as stability goes.
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You know the wrong modders. None of the TTW Team would say that for i.e.. I am part of it.
 
Walpknut said:
Isn't it funny how the people who refuse to play older games are the ones who throw the "close minded" line all the time?
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Isn't it funny how some people who played the older games (even back then as they come out), still think that here you can find the most "close minded" "fans".
 
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