TheBearPaw
First time out of the vault
2>1>NV>Tactics>>>>>>>>>3
Fallout 3 is a disgrace. Fuck you, Bethesda.
Fallout 3 is a disgrace. Fuck you, Bethesda.
Kotaku Ranks The Fallouts
- Thread starter Brother None
- Start date
First time out of the vault
Jarest
First time out of the vault
My opinion, for what it and others like it are worth, is in my signature.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout:NV
Fallout: Tactics
Fallout 3
Fallout 2
Fallout:NV
Fallout: Tactics
Fallout 3
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
shihonage said:
Couldn't have said it better.
And I disagree with everything except the Tim Cain quote and Bethesda writing quality.
Some of you folks are full of nostalgia as much as Bethesda fans are with their Fallout 3 derp.
Some of you folks are full of nostalgia as much as Bethesda fans are with their Fallout 3 derp.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I don't think it's nostalgia when people play the games annualy again (I know I do 
) to refresh their minds about the game.
Fallout 1 simply "feels" the best out of all the titles to me, has nothing to do with nostalgia (like many people, I also played FO2 first before FO1). Talking about that, I think I know what I will startup this evening.
) to refresh their minds about the game.Fallout 1 simply "feels" the best out of all the titles to me, has nothing to do with nostalgia (like many people, I also played FO2 first before FO1). Talking about that, I think I know what I will startup this evening.
Well, if apparently not even New Vegas' writing is enough to please Fallout 1 guys, then I think gaming has ended anyway, as the expectations are unreachable high.
depends.
Because I would say the writing in Vegas, is not even the problem. its about the "derpiness" of the content you know.
If they would have removed Caesars army of slavers or at least reworked them so that they didn't looked like a cheesy villain then it would have been better. Just as example.
Vegas is a "good" game, great even compared to Fallout 3.
But in the end Vegas is closer to F3 in my book then to F1/2. Mainly because the world never managed to suck me in, like the previous games did, the engine from F3 simply doesn't age well, the world is to small and they try to give you the feeling of this epic fight in the end which I really hated because it was nothing more then walking from one room to another, loading one level after another one ... to fight a couple of wanna be romans.
Because I would say the writing in Vegas, is not even the problem. its about the "derpiness" of the content you know.
If they would have removed Caesars army of slavers or at least reworked them so that they didn't looked like a cheesy villain then it would have been better. Just as example.
Vegas is a "good" game, great even compared to Fallout 3.
But in the end Vegas is closer to F3 in my book then to F1/2. Mainly because the world never managed to suck me in, like the previous games did, the engine from F3 simply doesn't age well, the world is to small and they try to give you the feeling of this epic fight in the end which I really hated because it was nothing more then walking from one room to another, loading one level after another one ... to fight a couple of wanna be romans.
Same here, I'm currently replaying F1 for the 50th time. F2 on the other hand I've played from start till end maybe 2 times + a couple of times a bit before I got bored. In Fallout 1 every location and every quest is pure gold (there are no fetch quests here, the only thing I can think of is delivering EMP grenades to Sophia in BoS but that's not even a quest but a mean to scam quartermaster). The only other game I can play indefinitely is Sacrifice.Surf Solar said:I don't think it's nostalgia when people play the games annualy again (I know I do
Anyway, coming months should bring some really good cRPGs, Age of Decadence being the most promising. I love the demo, it also has that something that Fallout 2 lacks for example. It's really similar to Fallout 1 in a sense that it's post-apocalyptic and it's focused on quality instead of quantity (not that many locations as in FNV for example and not that many quests but the ones I've seen are pure gold).
There is also Wasteland 2, Underrail, Shadowrun Returns and a couple more.
shihonage
Made in USSR
Lexx said:
People seem to worship Obsidian regardless of quality of the resulting work. Yes, Fallout:NV is a much more competent product because the world is less retarded and they emphasized non-linearity and redid how player stats affect the world.
However "better writing than Bethesda" means almost nothing. Fallout 3 writing was the worst I've ever seen in a videogame written by English speakers. It was single-digit IQ horror, blabbering kindergardener type of stuff.
Fallout:NV "elevated" it to standard crap videogame writing (Bioware level), where every NPC sounds like they are severely stuck on the autistic spectrum as they drone on about boring disconnected topics without regard to player's complete lack of interest in them.
The "theme park" approach is still there. To be honest the cowboy robots alone are enough to kill this game. I grit my teeth until I made a robot into a sheriff of a human "town". Then it just became unbearable.
A post-apocalyptic(still) world that has clean clinics will clean, very friendly doctors and no lines. In USSR we had mere poverty, not post-apocalypse, and we ALWAYS had bleary-eyed doctors and long lines in the clinics.
Here they have a fucking WASTELAND, rife with dangers and unsavory armed individuals. I would expect every single clinic to be overloaded, there would be a line of injured people, doctors would be jerks, but no...
There's a souvenir shop in a poor-ass town where people can barely feed themselves and there is NOTHING REMARKABLE ABOUT THE TOWN. And nobody ever buys anything in that shop.
There are prostitutes standing on empty corners with no clients passing them by.
There's a city that lives in poverty but spends their energy supply on giant neon lights instead of licensing it to other settlements who must direly need it.
If we had free-roaming robots in USSR we would've immediately destroyed them and disassembled them for parts. They would disappear immediately into the pockets of many, and nothing would be left of them. Nothing.
Here in a poorer world they somehow manage to exist on their own, get the same respect as humans, consume precious resources like power...
Fallout:NV may be attempting to continue from "legacy" of Fallout 2, but it makes no effort to introduce sanity into the equation. Just the opposite.
And the abstractions that worked in isometric view, where a town could be a few house blocks with 5 people in them, really falls apart in "realistic" first-person.
Let us also not forget the horrid inventory UI and "MMO/walking simulator" qualities inherited from Fallout 3.
Fallout 3 was shit and everyone despaired. Fallout:NV is bacon-flavored shit and now everyone praises it and the "comeback" of Oblivion. Raise the taxes by a dollar and people despair, then lower them by 10cents and you're praised.
WorstUsernameEver
But best title ever!
The New Vegas clinic isn't really a free, public clinic and is relatively distant from any inhabited center. A more apt comparison would be the Mormon fort in Freeside, and that has a fair amount of NPCs for New Vegas' standards and the doctors are pretty clearly depicted as overworked.
But anyway, you didn't enjoy New Vegas and don't like the turn the series has taken, which is fair enough. I don't really agree with your assessment and can't help but feel like you've internalized a vision of the Fallout series that was far more serious than what was intended by even the original team, but personally I'd just settle with not being treated like an idiot because I enjoy more games in the series than simply Fallout 1.
But anyway, you didn't enjoy New Vegas and don't like the turn the series has taken, which is fair enough. I don't really agree with your assessment and can't help but feel like you've internalized a vision of the Fallout series that was far more serious than what was intended by even the original team, but personally I'd just settle with not being treated like an idiot because I enjoy more games in the series than simply Fallout 1.
shihonage
Made in USSR
I wasn't referring to New Vegas clinic. There was another clinic on the way, but I already purged location names from my head.
WorstUsernameEver said:
All it takes is an in-depth look at Fallout 1 and comparison of it with the sequels. The evidence is right there, it's a gameworld that is the quintessence of all the design decisions put into it.
When Brian Fargo came on the team, Tim Cain quit Fallout 2 development because of creative disagreements, which is just another sign that the man who wrote the game's engine is responsible for far more "Fallout" than he is given credit for.
The massive influx of derp started when Tim Cain left, and it never stopped.
This reminds me of what happened to ST:TNG after Rodenberry's death. While he was alive, he was trying to maintain a sense of a functional sci-fi environment, by elaborating the nature of futuristic concepts and construction materials, trying to make sure the parts of spaceship made at least some sense...
After he died, there were several episodes shortly one after another which suddenly featured "emergency bulkheads" because that's the only thing they could come up with. They were lost.
When you start falling out (no pun intended) of established world framework, suspense of disbelief erodes.
"What really happens is that the story-maker proves a successful 'sub-creator'. He makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is 'true' : it accords with the laws of that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken ; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World again, looking at the little abortive secondary World from outside. " - J.R.R. Tolkien
I always make tremendous effort to remain in Secondary World, but FO2/3/NV make an active effort to push the player out and keep him outside.
Daemon Spawn
Old Warrior of the Wastes
2
1
New Vegas
Tactics
3
1
New Vegas
Tactics
3
Who said that exactly? I only remember that creator(s) of Fallout 2 said they went overboard with silliness and humour. With random encounters, exploding people when they were talked to by a retard and many funny dialogue options it's hard to believe they would say that.WorstUsernameEver said:
MCA said:
I completely agree with shihonage about everything he said without ever having played any other Fallouts besides 1 and 2, don't you people understand how right that makes him?
As for the ranking, we've all heard the arguments, FO2 is better mechanically, has more "stuff", FO1 has a (far) superior story and setting. After countless playthroughs this just ends up making 2 > 1 because mechanics + stuff always trumps story + setting when it comes to replayability. FO1 is still objectively speaking the better game of course
.
As for the ranking, we've all heard the arguments, FO2 is better mechanically, has more "stuff", FO1 has a (far) superior story and setting. After countless playthroughs this just ends up making 2 > 1 because mechanics + stuff always trumps story + setting when it comes to replayability. FO1 is still objectively speaking the better game of course
.
shihonage said:
Nope. I know you're not interested in playing any other game than Fallout, but you're elevating it to some kind of unreachable point of perfection. Fallout is a great, brilliant game but it isn't perfect, not by a long shot.
So I guess you must have hated Junktown or the Boneyard gangs, eh? These fit your bill of theme park design to the letter, as neither have well defined roles in the world or grounding in reality.
I know it might be hard to grasp, but the USSR was never depopulated by a nuclear war. It makes sense to have clean clinics, just as it makes sense to not have long lines in clinics. You know, because the nuclear war killed off most of the population. NCR with 700,000 people is considered a vast and powerful nation, despite having merely a fraction of people living in our LA alone.
To have that you would have to have a population of millions in an area.
If you invest as much time into understanding subjects as you did to grasp Novac, no wonder you have a problem figuring New Vegas out. Novac is a trading and scavenging hub, laying on the current trade route to New Vegas. It benefits from the technology its inhabitants recover and sell.
I'm not sure why you consider Novac poor-ass. As far as wasteland communities go, it's pretty damn rich and respectable.
Fallout or Fallout 2 didn't have that either. Double standards much?
Which city? The Strip? It's getting its power from the Dam and couldn't care less about the outside. Freeside? Yeah, a handful of efficient neon lights is going to be terrible. People must like living in pitch black darkness and moving through dark streets. It's not like there's plenty of people waiting to mug them, right?
You don't really get the setting, do you? New Vegas is set in a stable world centuries after devastation. People are no longer savages bent on scraping by, they're honest people who lead their own lives. Goodsprings explains that from the minute you set foot outside Mitchell's house, unless you're hell bent on ignoring the setting and forcing it into a frame from 120 years earlier.
As for the robot, I assume you mean Victor. Generally, harassing a large robot that's clearly armed and packs a nasty punch isn't really conductive to one's health. Furthermore, I doubt that people are really that desperate to get whatever makes him tick.
(side note: I find it funny how you keep portraying your own nation as ignorant savages focused only on surviving to the next day by tearing each other apart)
That's your opinion and while you are entitled to it, like you are to your various internal organs, I have to note it's not one shared by other users of this forum. So, either you are somehow brighter or more intelligent than all of us (making us retards), or you are holding a game to impossible standards no game, Fallout 1 included, can ever pass.
Is your imagination that limited?
Yes, we get it, you cannot ever be satisfied unless you get a rebranded Fallout 1.
Y'know, NMA might be one of the worst places on the internet to try the "you won't be happy unless it's Fallout 1 rebranded" strawman.
In fact, you shouldn't use any strawmen on NMA. Because they are a Bad Thing®
Whatnow to the whoozies?
In fact, you shouldn't use any strawmen on NMA. Because they are a Bad Thing®
shihonage said:
Whatnow to the whoozies?
Brother None said:
I know, I know. I only used it because this is evident from his posts. Fallout 1 is the unattainable plateau of perfection and everything is below it. Thus, the only way to get a comparable sequel is to rebrand the original and make it more pretty.
JimTheDinosaur said:
I disagree. Fo1 has a better driving premise, but the much more developed setting in Fo2 (especially in terms of interconnectedness) gives it the edge. Neither game has much of a story as such.
I remember from my first playthrough of Fo1 it felt pretty much like they were ticking off a laundry list of PA standbys. It's well realized but far from all of it is brain candy.
shihonage said:
This is why we can't have free-roaming robots.
