Mark Morgan's "Vault Archives" available again

[dustin542]

I know its different industries, but Its like an artist's new label wants copyright to their music that was on a previous label. I mean did Mark or Interplay own the rights to his music? I don't even think Square has a say or cares what Nobuo Uematsu does with his music in his band The Black Mages. Then again, I guess it depends on the agreement.

 

[Vik]

I see Vegas as a great roleplaying game. but its not a proper fallout game in my eyes. But thats my oppinion.

Content-wise it is. Gameplay lacks a bit, but it's still very good considering what they had to work with.

 

[Elven6]

Why all the hate for Fallout Tactics? It wasn't great but it was still good, and from what we've known of Fallout Tactics 2, it would have greatly improved on the original in every way possible.

 

[Walpknut]

Why is vegas not a proper Fallout title? I understand that complain against FO3, but New Vegas? what is a Proper Fallout game for you? some people seem to think rehashing the same shit is a proper sequel.

 

[Vik]

Why all the hate for Fallout Tactics? It wasn't great but it was still good

it wasn't even decent. It was boring and only thing it had in common with F1 and 2 was the combat. And here's the best part - it somehow managed to turn the combat into boring shit as well. I tried many times, but I could not make it further than the first few levels. It felt like some amateur total conversion mod for another 2D game, one that only looks like Fallout, but doesn't even play like it.

Fallout 3 has it's flaws, but at least it's a Fallout game unlike this crap.

 

[Makagulfazel]

Heh, but it was even named as a spinoff!
I still like Tactics. But I liked Fallout 3, too(Major improvement over Oblivion). Now love.. that's a different story. It might've been nice if Bethesda let someone else pick up the franchise, but then we may have never seen another Fallout single player RPG. Or it would've been released as something other than a FPS and sold like Vtm:Bloodlines. Who knows? At least they allowed Obsidian a shot at it and for that I am grateful.
The kinda shit this thread is about, though? They should have never cared. Are they planning on releasing a soundtrack CD compilation or something? I don't think so.

 

[Surf Solar]

but then we may have never seen another Fallout single player RPG

Not true, Troika has been outbid by Bethesda when the Franchise was sold.

But yeah, I'd like to focus more on the topic aswell.

 

[Vik]

Would Troika really make a difference though? Even if they bought the franchise, they would go bankrupt in a few months anyway. And as far as I know, nobody else was interested to pick Fallout up.

 

[Elven6]

Why all the hate for Fallout Tactics? It wasn't great but it was still good

it wasn't even decent. It was boring and only thing it had in common with F1 and 2 was the combat. And here's the best part - it somehow managed to turn the combat into boring shit as well. I tried many times, but I could not make it further than the first few levels. It felt like some amateur total conversion mod for another 2D game, one that only looks like Fallout, but doesn't even play like it.

Fallout 3 has it's flaws, but at least it's a Fallout game unlike this crap.

Eh, different strokes I guess.

I personally saw Fallout 3 as a step down from Oblivion. One thing I really liked about Oblivion were the rebuilding side quests where you gained control of an abandoned area and had a chance to rebuild and repopulate it. Seems kind of odd that a setting such as Fallout 3's would be missing such an aspect. It also felt a bit too much like Oblivion with certain assets.

Don't get me wrong though, I liked Fallout 3 and so far am really enjoying New Vegas. I still like the originals the most though.

In regards to Troika, lets assume they had the money to buy Fallout and started work on Fallout 3. They likely would have had a better opportunity to find a publisher/new source of funding this way than without the license simply due to the power the franchise has.

 

[Vik]

Back in 2004 Fallout wasn't that big. Hell, especially after the commercial failure of Bloodlines I doubt Troika would get any real support even with the fallout license.

I don't think Fallout 3 is a step down from Oblivion, it's many steps up from Oblivion gameplay wise, not that it says too much though.

 

[Elven6]

Back in 2004 Fallout wasn't that big. Hell, especially after the commercial failure of Bloodlines I doubt Troika would get any real support even with the fallout license.

There were quite a few Fallout fan communities, going by Herve Caen's figures, there were over 500k members in the 3 major sites combined (excluding DAC, I know one of the cited figures were from NMA, I think another one was also a Russian site, not sure on the third). Of course that doesn't mean much at all, but it gives you a rough estimate of how well a game of that caliber could have sold to the dedicated audience. The fan sites alone broke various sales figures for Interplay's online store in terms of pre-order.

And Bloodlines has been selling really well in recent years, it's a popular title to reach the top 10 on various online retailers. Unfortunately, this was all after Troika shut down. Would be interesting to hear what the figures are at now though.

Edit: Exact figure quoted at this time was 350k with 7 sites quoted.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1057232/000117091806001092/presentation.htm

Still not a bad figure at all and certainly enough for a game to make back its costs and maybe then some. We also haven't factored in the millions who have bought previous Fallout titles either or those users who could be interested in the title during development.

 

[Brother None]

Fallout 3 could've worked exactly as a Fallout 1 could've worked. As a B-reel title, profitable but unspectacular, from a studio that has AAA projects elsewhere and thus doesn't bother the devs too much.

That form of design seems to be lost tho'. It's all indie or AAA now.

 

[Surf Solar]

Speaking of the topic, I redownloaded the package and noticed that some of the tracks are still too overcompressed. Am I the only one annoyed by that? Especially "Desert Wind" is a clusterfuck of abusive use of compressor and has too high treble settings....

 

[Crni Vuk]

Why is vegas not a proper Fallout title? I understand that complain against FO3, but New Vegas? what is a Proper Fallout game for you? some people seem to think rehashing the same shit is a proper sequel.

For "some" of us as schocking as that might sound, the "story" alone is not everything. The overall gameplay does have some factor as well. When people say Vegas is the game which is closest to a Fallout game we will ever get then I agree with that without spending any thoughts about it. But (again) in my oppinion there is more to it then just a few F2 references and interesting NPCs throwin in here and there. Vegas is still a shooter RPG which is more tweaked toward the first - person - shooter gameplay (which is no surprise when you consider the engine and game they used as base). But this was expected already from the start. Hence why I did not wanted to go in a deep "vegas" debate as I dont think one can really complain about that. Its true when you say Obsidian did a "good" job with what they had (Though I wish they would had at least some 6 more months to work with it, so we would have got maybe a much better legion).

I respect it when many here think its a great Fallout game. But I really hope people respect my points as well because I dont think its that hard to understand. I am realistic with my expecations. I never thought that we would get some game with very well done tourn based combat and some towp down perspective. To say that.

The reason why I think there was no "need" to resurrect the franchise is simply because Bethesda payed quit some money for it. its not like Interplay has throwin it out and Bethesda was not the only one who wanted to have the franchise. What they did with the game deserves in my eyes no respect as its very similar to what they did from Morrowind to Oblivion. Screwing over most of the loore, copying already existing content, simplyfing some game and capitalizing on the existing loore. How much "new" things have we seen in Fallout 3 ? Really new factions. The enclave, recycled. THe Brothood again recylced. The main quest ? Water purifer ? Fallout 3 impressed me with the visuals (here and there) and I think the artistical design was pretty great. But anything else. I guess thats oppinion.

 

[Lexx]

Well, I agree with you. FNV is a fun game for me and I really like it, but it doesn't really give me a Fallout-feeling, because the whole gameplay is just not what a Fallout game is for me.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

So yeah, I don't see anything 'purtey disgustin' in them reclaiming the intellectual property they bought. Not to mention that most of the time they do such stuff because they want to stop the rotten and stinky walking corpse that is Interplay from cashing in on the franchise they nearly killed back in 2004

And that big, bad Mark Morgan from releasing remastered versions of the music for the first gamefor free. Keep in mind that this was music which he composed and which was never sold separately.

Well, I guess it all boils down to a person's definition of the term "f***ing dead". When the last good game in a franchise was made in 1998 and the idiot and half dead publisher killed a true sequel in 2003, I think it's as close as a franchise can get to f***ing dead. So yeah, there was a need to resurrect it.

Time to make The Godfather Part 3.

I know its different industries, but Its like an artist's new label wants copyright to their music that was on a previous label. I mean did Mark or Interplay own the rights to his music? I don't even think Square has a say or cares what Nobuo Uematsu does with his music in his band The Black Mages. Then again, I guess it depends on the agreement.

Bethesda does own the music but I'm pretty sure that they don't have the rights to distribute it, as it is a part of the original games, thus Interplay (or nobody) would have the distribution rights. As for Uematsu and Square, I bet Square owns the music and gets royalties from it since they sell the soundtracks.

Why all the hate for Fallout Tactics? It wasn't great but it was still good, and from what we've known of Fallout Tactics 2, it would have greatly improved on the original in every way possible.

It wasn't very Fallout (enough for a spin-off though), it used SPECIAL and didn't cut any of the skills which it didn't use (which was most of them), and it wasn't as complex of a tactics game as it should have been. I still had fun with it but let's not pretend that it didn't have it's problems.

Fallout 3 has it's flaws, but at least it's a Fallout game unlike this crap.

In what way?

Would Troika really make a difference though? Even if they bought the franchise, they would go bankrupt in a few months anyway. And as far as I know, nobody else was interested to pick Fallout up.

They would have been able to get a publisher because they would have been selling a game that was a part of an established franchise. Hell, they were already working on the game so they would have even been able to show a tech demo off. Other companies had offered far more in the past, the sale to Bethesda was a quick deal done in order to prevent Interplay from being liquidated.

 

[Mr. Nixon]

Well, I guess it all boils down to a person's definition of the term "f***ing dead". When the last good game in a franchise was made in 1998 and the idiot and half dead publisher killed a true sequel in 2003, I think it's as close as a franchise can get to f***ing dead. So yeah, there was a need to resurrect it. At least I was tired of playing the same 2 games whenever I wanted some fallout.

And we got New Vegas in the end, which is probably as close as we'll ever get to a proper Fallout sequel. If interplay hadn't sold the franchise, maybe some Fallout tactics 2 would be in development hell for the next 5 years until Interplay would finally die like it should have. And in a year or two will anyway.

Oooh Interplay hate

Interplay is back and here to stay!

 

[Surf Solar]

As a musician and ambient composer, I hate that this thread got horribly derailed. Can't we just discuss the work MM did?

 

[Vik]

And that big, bad Mark Morgan from releasing remastered versions of the music for the first gamefor free. Keep in mind that this was music which he composed and which was never sold separately.

It is part of the intellectual property that now belongs to Bethesda. If these guys would be such big and bad pricks, they could have easily stop Mark from releasing these tracks altogether, but they did not. Don't really see a reason to cry a river about a dog marking its territory.

Time to make The Godfather Part 3.

Time to grow up and stop living in the past. Plus, while Fallout 3 was pretty much The Godfather 3, New Vegas is closer to F1 and 2 (or The Godfather 1 and 2 if you like that comparison).

Fallout 3 has it's flaws, but at least it's a Fallout game unlike this crap.

In what way?

Well, probably because it's a post-nuclear role playing game. Not a very good one, but still.

Would Troika really make a difference though? Even if they bought the franchise, they would go bankrupt in a few months anyway. And as far as I know, nobody else was interested to pick Fallout up.

They would have been able to get a publisher because they would have been selling a game that was a part of an established franchise. Hell, they were already working on the game so they would have even been able to show a tech demo off. Other companies had offered far more in the past, the sale to Bethesda was a quick deal done in order to prevent Interplay from being liquidated.

Established franchise, huh? You do remember that it was 2004-2005 back then, right? Consoles became bigger and AAA truly took over the market. Highly doubt they would find a publisher for a top down rpg either way, especially after Bloodlines failed.

 

[Ausir]

Bethesda does own the music but I'm pretty sure that they don't have the rights to distribute it, as it is a part of the original games, thus Interplay (or nobody) would have the distribution rights. As for Uematsu and Square, I bet Square owns the music and gets royalties from it since they sell the soundtracks.

I'm pretty sure they do have the rights to distribute it, given that they reused it in New Vegas too.

If these guys would be such big and bad pricks, they could have easily stop Mark from releasing these tracks altogether, but they did not.

They did have it taken down the day after it went live, though.

Established franchise, huh? You do remember that it was 2004-2005 back then, right? Consoles became bigger and AAA truly took over the market. Highly doubt they would find a publisher for a top down rpg either way, especially after Bloodlines failed.

IIRC, Activision was willing to back it up.