Mark Morgan's "Vault Archives" available again

Because each of them spans half of California and compressing that into one, seamless world simply wouldn't work.
 
Vik said:
How is that exactly?
Click to expand...

Capt. Maxson was right. This place is death. I'm writing this so that if we don't make it back, someone, some day, might find out what happened to us.

We made it to West Tek Research Facility after 20 days of hell. But that was the easy part. The radiation levels began to shoot up as soon as we could see the giant crater. We checked our supplies and figured with our armor and our anti-rad supplies we'd be fine for a least a day of exploring. We felt it was a calculated risk, but the technology we had the potential of recovering was worth it.

We climbed down the crater to the first level and everything seemed to be according to plan. The power was off, so we didn't need to circumvent the security. Or so we thought. There wasn't much of value on this level, so we pushed on.

The second level was more of the same.

When Jensen dropped to the third level, all hell broke loose. The security sensors had been burned out on the first two levels, but not on the third. Jensen was cut to ribbons before he knew what had happened. We'd never seen weapons cut through power armor like that. Men started dropping right and left, and the ones who were still alive lost it. I tried to regroup, but only Soto and Camarillo made it back up here to the first level with me.

The fact that I can smell Soto's burning flesh where his arm was taken off means that my power armor is no longer air tight, so I'm sucking up a lot more rads than I had planned on. I'm leaking hydraulics at an alarming rate. We need to get far enough away from this place before my armor dies.

Camarillo seemed fine physically, but he wandered off about an hour ago, mumbling something about Gehenna. That bastard has all the anti-rad.

That leaves Soto and myself. We can't make it far enough away from here without the anti-rads, so I've got to try to find Camarillo before it's too late.

Sgt. D. Allen, United States Armed Forces.
Click to expand...

Call me back when you figure out how to recreate 20 days of hell in the ancient Gamebryo.
 
And adding that holodisk into F3/NV isn't possible because...?

Ausir said:
Because each of them spans half of California and compressing that into one, seamless world simply wouldn't work.
Click to expand...
Well, the fact that they span across California doesn't really have such a big impact on the story, now does it?

It's more about details than anything else. You could just as easily have a map the size of F3/NV, put all the F1 or F2 locations in there with maybe a bit more space between them and get a pretty similar result.
 
And how would having such real-world locations as San Francisco, New Reno and Klamath on a FO3-sized map make sense? The distances in FO3 and FNV are already ridiculously compressed, but in this case it would be even more glaringly jarring.
 
Again, the size of locations does not really factor into telling a story all that much.

And as far as I remember, none of those cities were recreated in F2 in their real life size either. You can change those locations to smaller made up ones that make more sense and tell the same story.
 
It's not about the size of the locations, it's about the distances.

You can change those locations to smaller made up ones that make more sense and tell the same story.
Click to expand...

It won't be the same story. All you're saying is that you can tell any kind of story, as long as you change the story enough to not be the same story anymore. With this kind of map design, you can't tell stories featuring distant locations.

As for changing the locations to fictional ones, in Fallout 2, you'd still have a a coastal city (for access to the tanker that takes you to the Oil Rig), and a Nevada gambling city, which would make little sense if moved to California.

Try to recreate the Lord of the Rings in Oblivion editor. How much sense would that make if Mordor was just a few miles from the Shire?
 
It will be pretty much the same story, with a few details about the locations being changed. Nothing too serious to make it a different story, because distant locations do not play a serious role in the story. Don't you think you're going a bit too far into the nitpicking territory?

And I can't say much for the LotR comparison, since I haven't seen any movies or read any books on account of not giving a shit, but again, I never said the world map design is totally bad and the open world one is totally better. I said that it's a lot more enjoyable to explore a big world rather than a collection of unconnected locations.
 
It will be pretty much the same story, with a few details about the locations being changed. Nothing too serious to make it a different story, because distant locations do not play a serious role in the story. Don't you think you're going a bit too far into the nitpicking territory?
Click to expand...

No, not really, it would not be the same story at all. The story of Fallout 2 would not make much sense if places like Arroyo, Vault City, Broken Hills, NCR, New Reno and San Francisco were located as close to each other as the Fallout 3 locations, even if you renamed all the real-world locations.

I said that it's a lot more enjoyable to explore a big world rather than a collection of unconnected locations.
Click to expand...

It is for you. Not for everyone. Certainly not for me. And they're not "unconnected", but simply connected in a different way.
 
Meh, we can argue about it all day. Let's just agree to disagree on the subject and call it a day.
 
Vik said:
Again, the size of locations does not really factor into telling a story all that much.
Click to expand...
I think you make the mistake of comparing the kind of gameplay Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 have with the experience Fallout 3 and "somewhat" New Vegas try to offer to the player. The first one have been cRpgs or PnP emulations (either way you see it) while the last one are more open worlds or sandbox games. Now with F1 it isnt important if you create a city landscape of half a mile when there is nothing for the player to experience or nothing of interest. You see sometimes a few ruins and they get mentioned which is enough to keep the game with its visuals plausible. With Fallout 3 for example this does not work the same way. Neither with Vegas where you have to create the visuals as its more a game similar in the "imershun" of a first person game to say it that way. ~ And either Megaton or the Strip feelt very small considering how "important" they are in the game world.

YOu would have in Fallout 1 many times same or similar textures and sprites, where every raider looked more or less the same and most beds as well only the descbritions telling you if something was of interest or different. THe game would not render a bed with lice or bugs inside but just telling you eventually "in this bed you wont sleep alone tonight" while in Fallout 3 to create a similar kind of experience you would have to either show the bad in extremly bad conditions or even animate the "lice".

I had the Feeling that both F3 and vegas have been extremly "small" and "cramped" even more so as you have the option in F3 to detonate a nuclear weapon (actualy, even if you scale it down the size of the detonation is pathetic at best ... not to mention the radiation would pretty much contaminate the whole Fallout 3 world ... but oh well ...). Now one could eventually somewhat get used with it though but to really suggest now to squeze the locations of california in world of the size New Vegas offers can only be a bad joke. Maybe if the game would feature a "inteligent" fast travel and something which is known as "infine land" ~ something a few games have when you cross the borders of the map where you just walk endless in the same direction without any end. Then yes. Then I could see that work somehow. But not with the size either Fallout 3 or Vegas offer you.

The key word here is verimilitude. And the way Fallout 1 and 2 had it worked pretty well for its gameplay.
 
I'll just say this - if the engine can make a 40 square mile big map full of locations, I would bet that it can render a 100 - 200 or more square mile map with the locations of say F2 and have a few small locations here and there plus some random encounters. Add a vehicle to travel faster though the mostly empty wastes and you have an experience close to the F2 one and without a world map.
 
Vik said:
I'll just say this - if the engine can make a 40 square mile big map full of locations, I would bet that it can render a 100 - 200 or more square mile map with the locations of say F2 and have a few small locations here and there plus some random encounters. Add a vehicle to travel faster though the mostly empty wastes and you have an experience close to the F2 one and without a world map.
Click to expand...

Learn the GECK, make a TC mod, and I will salute you. It would be awesome if it would work. However, I don't know about the GECK/engine limitations.
 
Little Robot said:
Vik said:
I'll just say this - if the engine can make a 40 square mile big map full of locations, I would bet that it can render a 100 - 200 or more square mile map with the locations of say F2 and have a few small locations here and there plus some random encounters. Add a vehicle to travel faster though the mostly empty wastes and you have an experience close to the F2 one and without a world map.
Click to expand...

Learn the GECK, make a TC mod, and I will salute you. It would be awesome if it would work. However, I don't know about the GECK/engine limitations.
Click to expand...

The GTS travelling system mod can do that. Solutions made with this mod are much better then the retarded compressing everything in a oh so tiny worldspace. You basically have a huge worldmap and can travel to different worldspaces - technically (I hope no one comes up with this stupid idea, its just an example :shock: ) you could travel over the map of america from vegas to washington...


http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3157
 
Yeah, I know about that mod, and the story of Fallout 1 and 2 could work with that. But not with the seamless map design of vanilla FO3/FNV, like Vik says.
 
So the problem is not the fact that is an open world but is the size of the worldmap, it would nee an enormous installation in your pc and the number of bugs would increaase tenfold, a chaneg of engine woudl be optimal.
 
Vik said:
Good job making a baseless assumption about research that has nothing to do with what I said. I know that Interplay tried before, sure. But the question is, do you know that they are huge fuck-ups? Or does the wiki somehow fails to mention that fact?
Click to expand...

Oh really? Let us examine your postings,

Vik said:
Interplay has a few silly rights left, sure. But I can also see how it can annoy Bethesda, the owner of the franchise, when some small and half dead idiot company like Interplay is cashing in on Beth's success and wasting a good MMO license.
Click to expand...

http://nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=848312#848312

Notice the bolded text? When you say that relative to the MMO it gives the reader the opinion that you are saying Interplay only went after an MMO after they saw "Bethesda's success". If you looked at the link I posted, you would realize that,

A: Interplay has attempted to get an MMO going long before Bethesda even came into the picture.

B: Development of the MMO started before the success of Fallout 3 was foreseeable.

I assume you..wait,

Vik said:
Vik said:
Vik said:
Good job making a baseless assumption about research that has nothing to do with what I said. I know that Interplay tried before, sure. But the question is, do you know that they are huge fuck-ups? Or does the wiki somehow fails to mention that fact?
Click to expand...
But the question is, do you know that they are huge fuck-ups? Or does the wiki somehow fails to mention that fact?
Click to expand...
huge fuck-ups?
Click to expand...

Of course, how silly of me...

Vik said:
I'm quite sure Bethesda's actions can be easily explained - they don't believe now that Interplay can make anything even remotely decent and want to somehow get the last few remaining licenses that Interplay has through court. Can't blame them too, it makes sense to give the license to a more competent studio, which is is pretty much any other studio in the world.
Click to expand...

This makes perfect sense, Bethesda obviously has money to burn so they figured, "hey, lets go do something" and the Fallout lawsuit was born!

If Bethesda wanted Interplay's "other licenses" they would simply buy the studio or have negotiated all of them back when Fallout was sold.

"Competent"? Chris Taylor was doing MMO work at Sierra if memory serves right after leaving Interplay. Masthead has their own MMO, while it won't release until next month, their tech is all in place and they've been doing betas for quite some time now. According to SEC filings, they also had some insight into World of Warcraft. But I don't expect you to know any of that.

Edit: Can't forget Ballerium either.

Vik said:
And how exactly is it being wasted, you ask? Yeah, "Interplay has attempted to bring back as much of the original team as they possibly could", for sure bro. But I think you forgot one important detail - it happened years AFTER they pulled the plug on Van Buren, let all the developers go and sold the franchise for a silly 5 million to the highest bidder. If they truly cared about fallout, they could have sold the franchise to say Troika. Right now they are just holding on to the last thnig they didn't sell or fuck up, and I highly doubt they will even finish this MMO of theirs before gonig bankrupt again. And even if they do, I highly doubt it will be any better than Final Fantasy 14, a ugly and broken piece of crap that nobody will play. Call me pessimistic, but I doubt that even with some good people on board they can create a decent MMO, which is not even remotely the same thing as making a single player RPG.
Click to expand...

Yes, the fact that they are making an MMO years after an internal project was canceled is reason alone to discredit the fact that people like Chris Taylor, Mark O'Green, Jason Anderson, etc have/had input. Obviously...

And don't even try to front with Van Buren, it's quite obvious that you don't like the traditional gameplay style so I highly doubt Interplay would be a god in your eyes if Van Buren wasn't canned.

I recommend you do some research into why the Fallout license was sold in the first place and the factors that were at play. The fact that you consider "5 million" to be the "highest bidder" is laughable. And they never went bankrupt, I can't stress the research aspect enough if you want people to take you seriously.

And you honestly believe Troika had enough money to buy Fallout, even at 5 mill? Besides, what happened to your Troika hate from above? It seems you are simply trolling, there is little to show otherwise.

Vik said:
And I don't expect a Bethesda MMO. Unlike Interplay, they wouldn't try to make something they have absolutely no experience in doing, so they would probably license the MMO to a studio that could pull it off and just sponsor the thing, like they did with New Vegas.
Click to expand...

True, that must be why they've created a studio dedicated entirely to MMO development, it must also be why Bethesda tried for months to redact info about internal MMO's they were working on, it's likely also why Bethesda talks about MMO's just as much as they do Fallout.

Obviously they'd never do an MMO. And Rogue Warrior says hi

Vik said:
And don't get me wrong, if Interplay will somehow pull it off and make a good game, I'd sign up without a doubt. But given their deep history of screwing shit up, I'll believe it when I'll see it.
Click to expand...

Everything you say contradicts everything you say.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top