Mass Effect 3 discussion

[brfritos]

I find it funny that in the BioWare forum, lots of people just don't like the ending, because it is so dark and not because it doesn't reflect on anything you have done in the last two games.

I noted this too. There's a thread in BSN demanding a polished in the endings because of certain events, like space magic, people being teleported instantly to Normandy, glare contradictions to the lore, among other thinigs.
But the bulk of the complains are about dating characters, rewriting the end because they look dark or because "I didn't liked", among other things.

Of course complaining that the company lied plain and simple to the player and don't even respected our choices in some playthroughs is no matter of some concern.
No wonder this game has a day one DLC and Bioware is already annoucing new ones.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

The only thing that I would like to ad,[spoiler:92fc383491] is why not let Sheppard live [/spoiler:92fc383491]

[spoiler:92fc383491]He can survive if you have more than 4000 was assets. Or was it 5000?[/spoiler:92fc383491]

 

[nemo00]

I honestly don't find the ending that bad, neither the game, quite enjoying it as already said. This "fan movement" stuff is ridicolous..

I don't care that Shepard is a goner at the end, neither do I care for what happens with the Normandy. There is an entire galaxy put back to a dark age or maybe even worse, billions, trillions dead people, but the only thing those people care for are their Waifus, Love Interests and all this crap? What the fuck?

Personally I don't find it ridiculous, because for the first time ever in my career as a gamer i actually identify with the bulk of the fans who are crying out. I don't count the nma outrage against F3 which usually is a given fact for people in who are part of this community with which I also agree. Also let's not judge fans because, we were also judged once for wanting something else (at least we got New Vegas which managed to quell some of our disappointments or at least throw us a bone).

So yes I would like Shepard to survive, and an end in which all of the surviving crew play a game of poker in the game room of the Normandy (Hell wasn’t this the way Star Trek TNG ended Piccard hallucinating and in the end joining the poker game). As I said before didn't almost every character in Lord's of the Rings survive (in fact only Boromir and the king died ) against impossible odds. Or wasn't the whole jedi order resurrected by Luke Skywalker and have a big ass party after destroying the Deathstar even though the Emperor foretold their failure. (the matrix was something different and their ending actually makes sense but that is a completely different topic)

Regarding your second objection that the whole galaxy was thrown back to the middle ages, here I completely agree with you. This is the other huge reason for which I really hated the ending (even more then Sheppard dying). The only thing I would add to this is that the galaxy would have been thrown back in the stoneage, as basically 99% of the galaxy's military, ecconomy and biological mass would have been destroyed (this includes the infant species which were unfortunate enough to live near a system with a mass relay). So basically two of the three endings almost end all life in the galaxy, which kills logic for the franchise as any comic book or game after them would be idiotic, and should be hard to sell to most of the fans (as the backlash is huge). But then the stupidity of the masses can sometimes reach unimaginable levels.
Also after crawling the internet for some info, I also started believing that Bioware will pull a hallucination crap and also that this was planned from the start. (Trying to control the reapers being the only option not to blow up the galaxy which actually means that they win) which is lame. Also that fucking snippet at the end of the game in which we see Sheppard alive only makes sense if it is actually on Earth before he goes up to the Citadel (suggested by the setting). I mean there is no way (at least I hope) that they will try to explain that well you know the Citadel blew up but Sheppard survived the destruction of the whole fucking solar system and somehow was teleported onto a planet full or ruble. If they would like to do than they should have made Chuck Norris the main protagonist of the trilogy.

 

[Crni Vuk]

True. But it really gets tedious when someone like Crni shows up in every thread just to say how bad the gaming industry is nowadays and how a game did not impress him.

If you have really a problem with that you could always tell me that. You know. don't talk about me like I am not reading this place.

 

[Ilosar]

I don't care that Shepard is a goner at the end, neither do I care for what happens with the Normandy. There is an entire galaxy put back to a dark age or maybe even worse, billions, trillions dead people, but the only thing those people care for are their Waifus, Love Interests and all this crap? What the fuck?

Respectfully: did you read my post? This isin't about love interests, for many people at any rate. It's the fact that the ending provides no closure at all and craps over the whole damn series, rendering most of it meaningless since shit happens no matter what. Think of the Fallout games. Imagine if, no matter what you did, in the end the whole world (not a select number of places ala Van Buren, everwhere) suffers a second apocalypse, something absolutely devastating. You want to know what happens right? I mean, you spent all game long (in ME's case, 3 games long) in this world, seeing it change based on your actions, you want to see how it all turns out, how they cope with all this, no? Except you can't. Only ending you get is Ron Perlman telling you the PC is now a legend while talking to some kid. Where is this? When? Why the hell do you care about that guy and his brat? There's a complete lack of closure. Same for the companions; imagine if, in addition, all your companions mysteriously fled right before the final battle, and in the end the only thing you know about them is that the apocalypse has stranded them... somewhere. No further details given. Figure it yourselves, bitches.

I mean, I understand your point, some people DO complain that the ending is too dark (which is a somehat valid point too; Mass Effect never was that dark) or that there's not enough Tali or whatnot, but the fact that three game's worth of actions, of character interaction, of exploring this deep universe, is rendered completely moot 5 minutes into the end of the third game is fucking unnacceptable. There's just too many problems with this ending to let it slide imo. I mean, I handled multiplayer (it turns out to be fun too, so yay), I handled day 1 DLC that's partially on the goddamn disc, I handled ME1 faces not importing, because those are either bugs or EA doing it's thing. But this is a narrative decision Bioware took, and I along with many others find it absolute garbage. At this pont, I don't even want them to change it ('cause if they do, $). I have my own idea of what really happened, the ending in the game is just an illusion or whatnot, then end.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Speaking of mutliplayer.

Who else wants to team up with me?

My Origin ID is FuriosoThe

I've got one other friend and he was the only competent person on the random team that I joined.

 

[Ilosar]

Mine is Jasta11. Feel free to add me, but I probably won't play too much in the coming days. March is the time university ceases solely being about parties after all .

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Do you have your account set to Private?

Because I'm searching for it and it doesn't pop up.

 

[Surf Solar]

I don't care that Shepard is a goner at the end, neither do I care for what happens with the Normandy. There is an entire galaxy put back to a dark age or maybe even worse, billions, trillions dead people, but the only thing those people care for are their Waifus, Love Interests and all this crap? What the fuck?

Think of the Fallout games. Imagine if, no matter what you did, in the end the whole world (not a select number of places ala Van Buren, everwhere) suffers a second apocalypse, something absolutely devastating. You want to know what happens right? I mean, you spent all game long (in ME's case, 3 games long) in this world, seeing it change based on your actions, you want to see how it all turns out, how they cope with all this, no?

Honest? I'd like it. I prefer such ambigious endings much more. The only thing I can agree is that the actual ending sequence could be a bit longer. All the rest is tied up nicely together - what is this missing "closure" you are speaking of?

Taking your Fallout example, in the end the Vault Dweller always wanders alone out in the desert, the chosen one always comes back to Arroyo. Sure you have your ending slides (which I agreed this could be made similar in ME3) but ultimately you have the same "closure" there... I really don't understand all this outrage.

To me, this ending creates a much more interesting ground for new games in the series (what with the name giving relays are gone) than as when we'd just had a "Reapers are gone, that's it lol" ending..

 

[Surf Solar]

So an element that doesn't exist in the real world that can create such Mass Effect fields or let people form singularities or tiny black holes out of their brains is no space magic then? How is that any different to the other "magic" the people are raging about? Just because there is some half-arsed "explanation" in the ingame codex it doesn't mean it becomes less derpy.

The series was always dorky in that regard.

Besides the "merge synthetics/biologics" ending, there isn't even that much "magic" involved. The relays go poof and the Rapers are destroyed. Or what do you mean specifically with the "magic"?

 

[nemo00]

I don't care that Shepard is a goner at the end, neither do I care for what happens with the Normandy. There is an entire galaxy put back to a dark age or maybe even worse, billions, trillions dead people, but the only thing those people care for are their Waifus, Love Interests and all this crap? What the fuck?

Think of the Fallout games. Imagine if, no matter what you did, in the end the whole world (not a select number of places ala Van Buren, everwhere) suffers a second apocalypse, something absolutely devastating. You want to know what happens right? I mean, you spent all game long (in ME's case, 3 games long) in this world, seeing it change based on your actions, you want to see how it all turns out, how they cope with all this, no?

Honest? I'd like it. I prefer such ambigious endings much more. The only thing I can agree is that the actual ending sequence could be a bit longer. All the rest is tied up nicely together - what is this missing "closure" you are speaking of?

Taking your Fallout example, in the end the Vault Dweller always wanders alone out in the desert, the chosen one always comes back to Arroyo. Sure you have your ending slides (which I agreed this could be made similar in ME3) but ultimately you have the same "closure" there... I really don't understand all this outrage.

To me, this ending creates a much more interesting ground for new games in the series (what with the name giving relays are gone) than as when we'd just had a "Reapers are gone, that's it lol" ending..

What future game? The whole galaxy is obliterated.....in two of the three endings( the third one ends with the reapers winning). The only future game that could make sense is a medieval themed RPG with some alien species at least 500000 years after the original game. Ok so the aliens would be some kind of cylons if we take the synthesis ending

 

[Ilosar]

To me, this ending creates a much more interesting ground for new games in the series (what with the name giving relays are gone) than as when we'd just had a "Reapers are gone, that's it lol" ending..

[spoiler:496a158288]

Except if you ask me, even a ''reapers dead lol'' ending would have fit the series more. This kind of depressing, no-matter-what-you-do-you're-screwed ending may fit in, I don't know, Cyberpunk (note how the three endings are basically lifted from Deux Ex 1), or sad stories like Red Dead Redemption, but Mass Effect is a space opera that always at least proclaimed choice matters and victory s possible in the end. It also had well established thematic elements, such as free will (Geth subplot, Jacob's loyalty mission), the right of a species to exist (again the geth, the Genophage), or the fact that Shepard fights and can win no matter the odds (the whole damn series). All that is thrown out of the window, some Deux Ex Machina god-child throws some determinist bullshit at you, you can't even argue its lack of evidence or its conclusions, then you choose between green explosion, red explosion or blue explosions. How the hell does this fit the game?

Also, yes Eezo is a fictionnal element, but the use the universe makes of it is well-documented and makes sense in context, which is what science-fiction is all about. The endings magically destroy all synthetic life (shouldn't Shepard die then, since he is half-synthetic? What about VIs? What are the ''critera'' for being considered synthetic life? Not explained at all), control the Reapers (OK this one is less space magic, just send the right signal and off ye go; but if you can control them, why not just shut them down?) or turn every being in the galaxy (or just sapient species...?) into a half-robot, with a ''new DNA'', instantly, which is space magic of the highest order. No foreshadowing. No explanations. It just happens, accept it bitches.

Also, about the lack of closure, I tought this one was obvious. You spent three games uniting the galaxy, fixing problems left and right... But it doesn't change anything. Let's take one example; the Quarians. You can exterminate them on Rannoch. If you don't, the Migrant Fleet comes to aid the fight against the Reapers. Except, with the Relays destroyed, they can't return to the homaland they just liberated. Worse, they are stranded on Earth, an amino-based planet, while they are dextro-based life forms. They are doomed to die of starvation eventually. All of them. So are the Turians present. So who the hell cares if you save them or not, in the end, since they are all going to die anyhow? That's just one example. What happened to the crew? Am I supposed to believe 20 people tops can found a prospering colony on an unknown planet? And again, Tali and Garrus are doomed to die of starvation, unless the planet is dextro-based, in which case the rest of the crew does, leaving EDI Forever Alone... unless she magically got destroyed in the ending. What a bright future for the people who have followed us three games long! At this point, better to kill them off in the Suicide Mission. At least they die in a blaze of glry, rather than fucking starving after being stranded for no goddamn reason. It's completely against the character of everybody on board the Normandy to escape the battle and leave Shepard alone. They never did this. No one on board would ever approve. Not only that, but you squadmates were all on Earth by the time of the assault on the Beam. Yet, in the time Shepard destroys the relays, they got back on the Normandy, abandonning him (wtf) and had time to enter a Mass Relay corridor, travel in those is near instantaneous, btw, hell of a coincidence they got cut at that time. It's not ambiguous, it doesn't make any kind of fucking sense. The fleet of the galaxy are stranded on Earth, which is devastated and doesn't have the ressources to sustain them. This is simply fact, there's no ambiguity.[/spoiler:496a158288]

Again, I kinda see your point, if you like it so be it. But there are very real reasons why one could hate the ending.

EDIT: to further support my point, I give you this piece of Gamespot garbage http://www.gamespot.com/features/why-bioware-shouldnt-change-mass-effect-3s-ending-6366066/

Compare with this in-depth article (spoiler warning) : http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/1/

I don't give a flying fuck about ''creator freedom'' when Bioware has promised different and fulfilling endings and has broken these promises like no tomorrow. Not the first time, yes, but its their biggest offender yet. I coped with a lot of things from them, but I just drew the line. ME3 was very enjoyable, but no response to this means I will buy future Bioware games in the bargain bin at best.

 

[Alphadrop]

I always get spooked when a gaming site provides a well written and argued piece of criticism at a triple A title.

 

[Ilosar]

EDIT @ Furioso: ups, my bad, it's Jastall (2 L's). Should work now.

 

[aenemic]

so I just finished the game. and I liked it. as per usual with a ME game, it has its (some big, some small) issues, but the overall feel of the game, the storyline and the characters makes up for most of it and leaves me with a sweet taste in the mouth. I can honestly say that this is the only major AAA series/title that I absolutely love the crap out of. from time to time, at least. I was a bit disappointed with ME2, but ME1 is probably one of my favorite games. I was hesitant at first with ME3, even came close not to bother playing it upon release, but I wanted to see it through to the end. and I'm glad I did, because I really enjoyed ME3. I loved the ending (at least the one I got) and I loved the storyline and how it was presented. there were things I didn't like as much, but nothing felt as hopeless and boring as the exploration and scanning of ME1 and 2. it's a true wonder they still didn't manage to make that FUN even in ME3. but it was alright.

spoilers below:

[spoiler:095dbc783c]I didn't mind my Shepard dying at the end. from ME1 until the end I played her as pretty much 80% renegade and 20% paragon, only wanting the best for her race and stopping at nothing to destroy the reapers. her dying as a result of destroying the reapers only felt natural. I would probably have been disappointed if she had survived, because I truly didn't see her being able to live a functional life after all this. after all the hard decisions and all the lives destroyed because of it I found this to be the most peaceful way to end it all.

and as for the whole point of the Reapers, the reason for them existing and doing what they do, I'm perfectly fine with the explanation or lack thereof given in the game. what I liked so much about them IS the mystery, and I didn't WANT to know every little detail and understand them fully. trying to explain them further would just end up cheesy as hell and probably raise even more questions. the explanation we got, that they exist to pretty much nullify but preserve the advancements of organic life in the universe does make sense to me and is enough. whoever or whatever created them did so to ultimately preserve the very essence of organic life. if it wasn't for them, organic life would be wiped out in favor of artificial life forever. and things like the picture in the post above, while funny, only proves that you haven't grasped their intent. they don't kill you to prevent you from getting killed, they kill you to make room for new organic life to grow and expand before it's too late. and I think that's a wonderful way of looking at life on our very own planet and what we humans do to it.[/spoiler:095dbc783c]

for me, the Mass Effect series have been such a fun and thrilling experience that has sort of become pretty personal (for example, just after I started playing the first game I moved to another city, and just now as ME3 was released I moved back home - the start and end of an era; also, Faunts is one of my favorite bands, which I as most people discovered thanks to ME1) that I can see past many of the flaws of these games. at the end, I'm happy with what they did with the story on a whole, and they allowed me to put a lot of emotion and effort into my character. sure, I wasn't as free to play whatever character I wanted as I would have in a proper RPG, but I think that they gave me enough to roleplay within the limits of the setting and story. it wouldn't feel right to be able to play a Shepard that simply says "fuck this, I don't give a shit. I'm gonna party non-stop until the Reapers kill us". I still had enough nuances and options to walk the path of a hero "saving" the galaxy for my own reasons. I could look past the simple text options on the screen and often had to stop and try to motivate why I just did what I did or figure out what my Shepard would do in this particular situation and for what reasons. and that's enough for me.

 

[Jebus]

Well, I just finished it too.

As mentioned before, on the whole it's a good game (although it has strayed incredibly far from its semi-RPG roots); but, as with everyone it seems, the endings left me bitterly dissapointed.

It's not the fact that it's a 'sad' ending (that's their artistic right, after all), but the writing and the way it's presented. It feels like they crafted a gem of a game, and then rushed the ending in an afternoon. It's incredibly bad, dissapointing, and frankly downright insulting my intelligence. Not just the deus-ex-machina, the GIGANTIC plotholes that the entire debacle creates, the fact that all my actions of the previous games were basically pointless, or the incredibly bad and cheesy dialogue (the "stargazer" epilogue is by far the most terrible piece of sentimental writing I've ever seen, and I feel terribe that they apparently convinced Buzz Aldrin to lend his voice for that), it's not just the complete lack of closure: it's the fact that they obviously had to conjure something up because they'd written themselves into a corner.

I have the same feeling as I had at the end of Lost: a sense of dissapointment, frustration and wasted effort. Hopefully, Mass Effect 3 and all the rage it created is going to prove the final straw in proving the Architect way of storytelling is vastly superiour to the Gardener one. Making people invest scores of hours (and money) into your story and then tieing the ends of your story together by MAGIC!!1 doesn't cut it, and is downright insulting towards your readers/customers.

Sad thing is, I'm 100% convinced this is also where Game of Thrones is heading.

 

[Ilosar]

You know the drill, spoilers below, ect.





There's actually a theory circulating on the BSN that it's all an hallucination, everything after Harbinger blasts Shepard (by all rights even him/her should not be able to survive a beam that can slice a Dreadnaught in half) is him dying/being victim of indoctrination. While this does explain the rather sudden changes in tone/themes/stuff making sense, it also adds even more questions; what was the point of all that then? Why would Bioware create such an elaborate (for all it's numerous faults, it's clear some effort went into it) ending if it's fake?

Hell, there's even people who think Bioware is trolling us, that a ''true'' ending is in the works or somesuch, which seems ridiculous to me. More than anything, I ask myself why in hell did they think this was a good idea. Even discarding the fact it craps all over the emotionnal attachement one could have in the series (and they know at this point their fans have a lot of emotionnal attachement, I mean just look at the 1000 pages + threads in the Characters section of the BSN), there are so many things just plain wrong with this shit. I mean, Bioware might not be Obsidian, but they are not bad writers either, for the most part. Yeah, they are not the first to do such an ending, but at least the The Matrix, Lost and Evangelion (for example) were mindfucks even before the endings, to a degree. Mass Effect was this epic space opera that at least tried to stay grounded, had us prepare for the grand finale for a whole game... Then pulls entirely new concepts out of nowhere, tells us to accept it, and asks what color we want our explosion. That's like ending Fallout with Zeus dropping bolts of lightning on the Wasteland or something. It comes completely out of left field and doesn't fit the series at all. It's so painfully obvious why it's such a bad ending.

But, Casey Hudson says he likes the ending, and that he's happy it makes people talk about it. Um, yeah, whatever fits your boat Casey, it certainly is being talked about, but the ''no such thing as bad publicity'' is a huge fallacy. Look at Dragon Age 2. I would not be surprised if ME3 has worse sales overall than ME2, given the endings + Origin + day 1 DLC partially on the disc (thanks for the info btw, Javik is nice to have around). It's just that Bioware seems to happily shoot themselves in the foot. Their best game since Origins, hell third best in their catalog even if you ask me after Baldur's Gate II and Dragon Age, and they torch it in the last 5 minutes. What the hell.

Unless they want to release a DLC that ''fixes'' the ending or somesuch. If that's the case, Bioware can probably kiss me goodbye as a customer, even if their next product is God's very Own gift to mankind. This would be an absolutely despicable business decision.

 

[Surf Solar]

Those ending "issues" aside, can anyone help me? I am stuck on the mission to take the Reaper base on Rannoch (the quarian homeworld). I am supposed to take out that reaper at the end with this targetting laser, but whenever I actually aim this thing at the reaper, its blast tears me apart. Yes, I tried dodging the beam, but then I dont have enough time to aim that thing properly. What the hell am I supposed to do there?

Why aren't Reapers equipped with any sorts of small arms? Surely a few mounted turrets would be enough to repel any invasion force... or badly-injured, crawling space marines.

Bigger reaper ships have such turrets and also smaller vessels to take out enemy interception fighters. For ground battles they have all their indoctrinated forces, Marauders, Husks, etc.

Can't they cross the entire galaxy in like 10 seconds, based on the cutscenes and the initial Earth invasion?

You still have to manually navigate to each relay, it's not that you can go into one portal and choose where you go. These relays are connected together via nodes, not an all span-go where everewhere you want instantly- system.

This is btw the reason I don't see the "let's talk on the Normandy while there is a war being held somewhere" - it still takes time to navigate through the relay network and the clusters to reach the next relay via FTL - so if you choose to dick around on the Normandy inbetween Missions, it just happens during the actual travel and the travel on the galaxy map is an abstraction with compressed time.

All of this was mentionend in the ingame codex, just fyi.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

What the hell am I supposed to do there?

You don't have to aim the whole thing in a single press of the button.

Focus your laser for a little bit, then make sure the Reaper misses you.

Then start focusing again right away, it's what worked for me.

That and finding out that the laser locks on much faster if you stand still when you use it.

 

[Ilosar]

In that part, just hold the trigger down, then dodge twice when the beam gets close. Rinse and repeat for two minutes. It's kinda tedious, but what comes after is great.

EDIT: Jesus, it seems like the Prothean has amazing dialog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKafW50ADew&feature=related
Lots and lots of insights. I also like his blunt personality. Y U turn him into day 1 DLC Bioware?