Crni Vuk said:
Vaults, Ghouls, references to Vault Tec, Poseidon Energy, also no BOS does not mean no Power Armor.
I say it would be a fertile ground for something different compared to the West coast.
So in the end, did the Super Mutants add to anything?
- Thread starter The Dutch Ghost
- Start date
Vaults, Ghouls, references to Vault Tec, Poseidon Energy, also no BOS does not mean no Power Armor.
I say it would be a fertile ground for something different compared to the West coast.
The ghouls ? could be also generic undead Oblivion like zombies. Vault Tec ? Dunno it was literaly everywhere. Yeah you had that typical stuff like Robco industries, or other things. I am more talking about the core game. Supermutants, Enclave and BOS are more or less the most important parts of the game next to vaults (but those havnt been more then generic dungeons in F3). As said take that out of the game and you dont have much left. The 50s references might be still there. But actualy Fallout never made the 50s a theme. Actualy it could be easily missed that it had something to do with it really (and it seems Bethesda did). What Fallout had was a 50s FUTURE bombed to hell and people surviving in it. Its not like they have been runing around with 50s hair, clothes and listening all the time to 50s music. By the way which culture would still hear the same kind of music even after 100 years ...if we consider Fallouts world was bobmed in 2050+ or so ?
It would be like taking a future how we imagine it in 100 years. Destroy it and suddenly people worship everything from 2010. Including music and clothes. For what ever reason.
I know some might say not Van Buren again. But it is interesting to say that Van Buren tried to move away from many things. At least thats known from the documents. They tried more to let us see new factions like Caesar legion or the Hover Dam I dont think the Brotherhood had any big role. It was also the first game that didnt let you start from a vault or with a conection to the vaults. If Van Buren would have seen the light it might have been possible that in a Fallout 4 one of the major factions would have been Caesar Legion (hypotheticaly).
I am just saying you know when you look at it Fallout 3 really did not included any new major factions. Nor did they anything to make the world "rich" in content. Yet they have missed so many oportunities. The various mercs for example like Talon and if you want even raiders or certain slave guilds. There has been lot of potential. Particularly for good moral conflicts. But they had to go for the lowest denominator. Action. And what do you need for action ? Exactly. Generic enemies. The more the better.
It would be like taking a future how we imagine it in 100 years. Destroy it and suddenly people worship everything from 2010. Including music and clothes. For what ever reason.
I know some might say not Van Buren again. But it is interesting to say that Van Buren tried to move away from many things. At least thats known from the documents. They tried more to let us see new factions like Caesar legion or the Hover Dam I dont think the Brotherhood had any big role. It was also the first game that didnt let you start from a vault or with a conection to the vaults. If Van Buren would have seen the light it might have been possible that in a Fallout 4 one of the major factions would have been Caesar Legion (hypotheticaly).
I am just saying you know when you look at it Fallout 3 really did not included any new major factions. Nor did they anything to make the world "rich" in content. Yet they have missed so many oportunities. The various mercs for example like Talon and if you want even raiders or certain slave guilds. There has been lot of potential. Particularly for good moral conflicts. But they had to go for the lowest denominator. Action. And what do you need for action ? Exactly. Generic enemies. The more the better.
I was thinking that you meant what the kind of stuff you could bring back in a Fallout game even if you removed stuff like the Super Mutants, the Enclave, and the BOS, but still make it feel that you are in the Fallout setting.
As for the real Fallout 3, as I said before, it just cut and pasted what had been done before, and went way over the top with the retro 50's theme.
As for the real Fallout 3, as I said before, it just cut and pasted what had been done before, and went way over the top with the retro 50's theme.
RedConversation
First time out of the vault
The Dutch Ghost said:
Well, no. Probably not, but if the Master's Intended Supermutants were supposed to be more intelligent than the men, and there is some indication he succeeded in one or two cases, such a genius mutant might be able to recreate the FEV strain in some way, provided the poor lug had the foresight to bring one with him to examine. This is all conjecture though, and again: Bethesda would fuck it up even if they went with that idea.
Repeated references in Fallout3 already ruin that, flimsy but more reasonable, idea for the existence of supermutants in the East.
Personally, I was far more upset with the way they brought in the Regulators, Raiders and Enclave. but that is a discussion that has already been had.
The Dutch Ghost said:
See the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 were something I had wished they explored a bit more in one of the DLCs. They have a unique origin point in comparison to Fallout 1 and 2; they have a very different existance as well. Comparing them.....
1.) Fallout 1/2 Super Mutants were flabby, yet buff and hulking. They were mostly dumb, but a threat. Fallout 3 Super Mutants were depicted brutal, in a constant state of roid rage, but somehow also smart. They at least stayed in groups, took over key areas (Usually) and actively attempted to prolong their existence.
2.) Fallout 1/2 muties remained mostly the same throughout their lives from the looks of it. Marcus in Fallout 2 looks like most other muties, yet was considerably older. Fallout 3's Super Mutants apparently were in a state of constant mutation. The older they got, the bigger, badder, hulkier, and more destructive they got ( See: Super MUtant to Super Mutant Overlord to Super Mutant Behemoth.)
3.) Fallout 1/2 Muties were sterile and required "victims" in order to prolong their species. Fallout 3 Muties are apparently sterile too, but actively "Reproducing" by dragging their own victims off to Vault 87 - if they don't eat them first. I can't tell if this was instinctive or if they were directed to. Faux's existence proves that smart muties can exist in Fallout 3 land, but are apparently rare. Maybe the original scientists are Super Mutant directors or something in Vault 87. After all, you only do see part of the Vault.....
So in a way their existence DOES add a bit to Fallout land by being the fact that they aren't Master or Enclave-brand Mutants. They're a new breed, one that apparently solely exists to be killed...repeatedly. I wish they had done more with them, but would I have taken them out? Admittedly, no. Though they do not add to anything, the inclusion of Super Mutants does mean less Raider fodder.
I want to put my say in this thing about FO3 and sequels. FO2 is a sequel as it takes place in a relatively same place and it connects the storylines. FOT and FO:BOS takes place in different places and does not connect the storylines, so they can'not be classed as sequels. FO3 set about 1000 miles away from the FO2, and it's stortline has no relation to FO2's either, so in my mind, FO3 is not a true sequel. FNV though, takes place pretty much the same place as FO2, and connects the storyline (quite small though), with the NCR and the Nightkin (hopefully more connection to FO2, so yes I would percieve FNV as a true succesor to FO2.
Mr. Krepe - While Fallout 3 doesn't take place in the same location as the first two games, it is a direct continuation of several groups from that game. It may not be that great, but it does wrap up both what happened to the Brotherhood post- Fallout 2 and the Enclave (Which I admittedly don't care for. I'd rather the Enclave in this game be more developed and not associated with the West Coast as much as they made it be.)
Quagmire69
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Super mutants were central in creating the atmosphere of the capital wasteland, the desperation, the hopelessness, yea id say they added something.
Why? Most of the time you saw crazed raiders and not supermutants.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
They only showed desperation and hoplesness in Big TOwn, I mean not even in Little Lamplight a palce that was RIGHT in front of their spawning point was even affected by them, they were only there to give you some random mini boss to kill. They were just meters away from the Ghouls at the Museum, and the SLavers near Lincolns monument, and yet tehy just chilled there in their barracks only in random chances when the AI wandered off, they fought any nearby NPCs.
Quagmire69
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
They added the desperation that made the Enclaves plan understandable. Part of the reason I introduced the FEV into the water the first play through was Eden totally sold me about how humans were losing the war against the mutants. After seeing them try to massacre Big Town, Ten-penny Tower, and with DC crawling with the damn things. Without the Mutants being such a problem the Enclave would have been the monsters they were in Fallout 2, the Mutants complete the Enclave, without them the Enclave really don't fit.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Quagmire69 said:
Well you were suckered weren't you seeing as how the Enclave posion kills everyone, also mutants don't complete the Enclave (because there weren't any pre-war) and the Enclave weren't any different in Fallout 2 than to F3.
Think of the world the Enclave would create if they won, all of the human race would live in a healthy, safe world or constant progress and rebuilding.
Yep, all of humanity who happened to be members of the Enclave.
Not others though, being mutants and all.
Not others though, being mutants and all.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
The Dutch Ghost said:
In the long run though everything will improve, the long run is the whole idea of the Enclave, "the ends justify the means". Look at the Enclave themselves, look at the pretty shit life they lived on the Oil Rig for over a century. Those people were the decendants of tycoons, generals, politicians, now just vapid drones on a rusting hulk in the middle of the ocean who watch 'saftey films' for entertainment. Why? Presumably to keep civil obidience, the Enclave has the data from the Vaults and presumably created such an authoritarian system to make sure that they didn't suffer civil war or riots of people wanting to leave; because they knew that they were the last and best chance that one day everything could be well again. Even if they had to subjugate themselves and their decendants to an authoritarian nightmare for a century, the pay-off would eventually be worth it.
Quagmire69
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Completely, that's why its a good game, in New Vegas thiers no suckering, everyone and everything is just as it seems, and that a really lame story if you ask me.
I do think they complete them story wise. Everyone has to have their opposite, the Brotherhood are just to similar to the Enclave to be a good nimisis, Super Mutants on the other hand are perfect.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Quagmire69 said:
Perhaps... I was too distracted by the question of why on Earth did Eden need a complete outsider to do the job when he had perfectly able men at extermination camps burning the corpses of the wastelanders they had just killed; it was an incredibly poor way of getting the PC in on the story and giving them exciting choices, I assume that Dad wasn't a particularly memorable character in your book?
So in other words the Enclave where the North-Koreans of the future. Just with super big technologyThe Enclave 86 said:
Quagmire69
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
What extermination camps?
He seemed kinda like a doomed idealist, sort of like Arcade in Vegas, Eden seemed a little more practical with more of a you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet approach.
The Enclave 86
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Crni Vuk said:So in other words the Enclave where the North-Koreans of the future. Just with super big technologyThe Enclave 86 said:
Actually... lol, that's pretty good, in all but intent perhaps; that and the Enclave are democratic.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
It doesn't make any sense that Eden would need YOU, they guy whose fatehr you killed, and the guy who is been killing his troops for a good chunk of the game to do the crucial part of his plan? Why not send one of his soldiers? they seem fanaticaly loyal to the Enclave, its not an interestign story, it doesn't make sense. Eden's plan is compeltely stupid.
And the Enclave didn't have many fights with the mutants, if they had such problem with them why not just go into the Museum and empty their guns on the Ghouls, I mean a single Mr Gutsy can kill them all. They have robots and Brain controled deathclaws and the only they seem to do is have posts in random palces, they seem to have a shitload of Vertibirids. You can't call sloppy characterization and story "Suckering" and complex, no organization in the game world seem to have any purpouse, the Mutants in the Vault are jsut a few meters away from a Human factory (little lamplight) yet they prefer to go from Germantown to Bigtown and then back to the Vault, WHY? The enclave patrols seem to be incredibly stupid fucks that just attack anyone that they see, you would think that if they bothered making a radio show spreading propaganda they would at least try to recruit Wastelanders and make active trading, at least to use them as pack mules. THATS BAD STORYTELLING and TERRIBLE worldbuilding.
And the Enclave didn't have many fights with the mutants, if they had such problem with them why not just go into the Museum and empty their guns on the Ghouls, I mean a single Mr Gutsy can kill them all. They have robots and Brain controled deathclaws and the only they seem to do is have posts in random palces, they seem to have a shitload of Vertibirids. You can't call sloppy characterization and story "Suckering" and complex, no organization in the game world seem to have any purpouse, the Mutants in the Vault are jsut a few meters away from a Human factory (little lamplight) yet they prefer to go from Germantown to Bigtown and then back to the Vault, WHY? The enclave patrols seem to be incredibly stupid fucks that just attack anyone that they see, you would think that if they bothered making a radio show spreading propaganda they would at least try to recruit Wastelanders and make active trading, at least to use them as pack mules. THATS BAD STORYTELLING and TERRIBLE worldbuilding.