Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Caesar destroys tribal identity, but he builds on top of it, he doesn't just destroy them and then hole himself up on a bunker. Which is what the Institute did.
Wasted Potential
- Thread starter Empty09
- Start date
This ghoul has seen it all
Caesar also is hellbent to try to rebuild based on a flawed idea that has no chance of succeeding. The NCR and Legion already proved why nation building is flawed, because its always doomed to result in destruction.
The Institute has no desire for the already failed ideas of the past like the NCR and Caesar, they are just trying to prevent retarded hellbent on those same flawed ideals from dragging them down with them.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
That made zero sense.
While beeing retarded themself ... very clever. With all the issues the Legion has? They still make 10 times more sense than the Institute, which is at the end of the day, just a less genocidal Enclave.
Did you play New Vegas? The whole point of the game, neigh the ENTIRE point of the series has been "war, war never changes" that people's inability to change ultimately results in the destruction of all empires.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/intervie...ost-mortem-interview-part-one-v15-105836.html
Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Did you play New Vegas? the point wasn't that Nation Building was futile, but that it was arduous and human nature birthed conflict.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Meanwhile Bethesda still doesn't understand the meaning of "War, War never changes" but instead they throw it around like it's only a catchphrase. They think Fallout is all about the past God only knows why.
It's the easiest way to catch attention outside of writing a great and deep plot. Fallout, the alternate 50s game where you fight mutants in a wasteland. So cool!
Which is why so many NPCs talk about how both the NCR and Legion are doomed to collapse due to a variety of factors ranging from lacks of food and water, to not one actually following Career's ideals?
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Yeah, because there is a war going on and the different sides have different opinions on the factions.... You know, kind of like the real world? Some people are very optimistic about the NCR, some are wary but hopefull, the game isn't about "the futility of nation building".
For all it's flaws, the NCR managed to survive for quite some time and even to grow. For all we know, they are probably still around in the timeline of F4. By the way, nations dissapear and change all the time. Just look at the past 70 years. IN that sense, the NCR has existed longer than, no clue Germany in it's current form, which changed quite heavily after 1945 I would say.
Most people actually talk about the NCR loosing in New Vegas, not outright colapsing. Many NPCs think the Legion will colapse in a relatively short time frame without Caesar. And that seems quite possible.
Most people actually talk about the NCR loosing in New Vegas, not outright colapsing. Many NPCs think the Legion will colapse in a relatively short time frame without Caesar. And that seems quite possible.
Empty09
Still Mildly Glowing
Does anyone think Bethesda will ever connect dots in the same manner Obsidian did with the past events of FO1/2 ?
I'm pretty sure that they will never touch DC again since I've noticed that they changed the way they build a world now (probably after seeing New Vegas) and they won't take the decision to recreate DC since that will show their own stupidity with FO3 and Boston is too fresh.
Also...I can also bet they won't take on the FO/1/2/NV area because they proved already they are just interested in picking a zone on the US map and build a shallow story and a game where they put emphasis on 3D Shooter features combined with idiotic-worthless gimmicks such as settlement building.
I'm pretty sure that they will never touch DC again since I've noticed that they changed the way they build a world now (probably after seeing New Vegas) and they won't take the decision to recreate DC since that will show their own stupidity with FO3 and Boston is too fresh.
Also...I can also bet they won't take on the FO/1/2/NV area because they proved already they are just interested in picking a zone on the US map and build a shallow story and a game where they put emphasis on 3D Shooter features combined with idiotic-worthless gimmicks such as settlement building.
Uhh no, its near universal from even pro NCR supporters that the NCR is going to collapse due to a number of reasons.
-Hanlon mentions they are out of water.
-Hildern mentions that they about to face mass starvation in 10 years time.
-Everyone from Cass, to even Marcus, mention that the NCR's government is bloated, corrupt, they try to hold more land then they can, and them constatly just taking everything they want has cuased a lot of resentment that is likely to boil over into a revolution.
Even in Van Buren things were going to get nuked. Why? Because that's the whole point of the game. War never changes, people never change, all ideals of the past are doomed to failure for the same reason they were in the past.
Empty09
Still Mildly Glowing
Who wants to know what happens to the NCR anyway? Do we get any Alien DLC for FO4?
Yeah, not-utopia does not mean failure. This irritated me with the dialoge you have with Shaun, when he points to the ruined post-apo Boston, and you got no option but to agree four times.
I do *not* agree. Even cannibalistic jungle-tribes is humanity, while something as complex as "Goodneighbor" is a functional society, albeit very small and slightly illogical - it is far from the "obvious failure" Shaun sees, that you must agree with.
NCR is even less flawed, I am still perplexed at this seeming consensus that NCR is some kind of geopolitical disaster. They're the best nation state to ever grow out of post apocallyptic America, they have a functioning democracy, and havoc and mayhem is mostly out in the borderlands. This is even mentioned in FONV, that people back home are care free. It is mocked and criticized when related to the impending Legion invasion, sure - but it's a sign of a country run well.
With the Legion crippled, I don't see why NCR is some kind of "self evident" disaster-state. They could think of slowing down the expansion, in order to not over-stretch their borders further, but there is little-to-no indication in NV that NCR plans to expand much further. They are mostly seeking to secure Hoover Dam for electricity. For all we know, they decide to settle with that border. I don't think a lot more can be demanded of them
I do *not* agree. Even cannibalistic jungle-tribes is humanity, while something as complex as "Goodneighbor" is a functional society, albeit very small and slightly illogical - it is far from the "obvious failure" Shaun sees, that you must agree with.
NCR is even less flawed, I am still perplexed at this seeming consensus that NCR is some kind of geopolitical disaster. They're the best nation state to ever grow out of post apocallyptic America, they have a functioning democracy, and havoc and mayhem is mostly out in the borderlands. This is even mentioned in FONV, that people back home are care free. It is mocked and criticized when related to the impending Legion invasion, sure - but it's a sign of a country run well.
With the Legion crippled, I don't see why NCR is some kind of "self evident" disaster-state. They could think of slowing down the expansion, in order to not over-stretch their borders further, but there is little-to-no indication in NV that NCR plans to expand much further. They are mostly seeking to secure Hoover Dam for electricity. For all we know, they decide to settle with that border. I don't think a lot more can be demanded of them
Plenty of people? and Maybe?
Uhh no, its even mentioned that the NCR imposes crippling taxes on its citizens, raiders and bandits still run free due to the NCR's inability to patrol their lands, large cities like The boneyard are still considered bad places for people to live, Brahmin barons are pushing people off thier lands with thug tactics.
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Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
The whole point of the game is everything getting Nuked. Of course.... This is what Bethesda brought us.
Hanlon mentions they are out of water and he is a staunch opponent to Oliver and Kimball.
Hildern mentions they might face a food shortage in 10 years.... which is why they are working on remedying it (kind of the point of the quest he gives you).
Cass still says she believes in the NCR and in their endings she even says she feels like a Hero for helping them take them Dam.
The game is not about "everything is futile" is about "Humanity's nature births conflict". The NCR will only collapse if their gamble doesn't pay off, and even in the Independent and House endings the NCR doesn't collapse from the loss, some endings even mention people like Chief Hanlon going back and becoming the governor of Redding and leading a political campaign against Kimball and Oliver that has massive support. So even in the unfavorable endings the NCR still trecks along. The Legion is the one that is more fragile when it comes to losing the Dam, but they are still stated to have the most secure regions under their arm.
No idea where you get this "the point of Fallout is to nuke all nations" from New vegas. Seems more like some preexisting disturbing ideas on your part.
Hanlon mentions they are out of water and he is a staunch opponent to Oliver and Kimball.
Hildern mentions they might face a food shortage in 10 years.... which is why they are working on remedying it (kind of the point of the quest he gives you).
Cass still says she believes in the NCR and in their endings she even says she feels like a Hero for helping them take them Dam.
The game is not about "everything is futile" is about "Humanity's nature births conflict". The NCR will only collapse if their gamble doesn't pay off, and even in the Independent and House endings the NCR doesn't collapse from the loss, some endings even mention people like Chief Hanlon going back and becoming the governor of Redding and leading a political campaign against Kimball and Oliver that has massive support. So even in the unfavorable endings the NCR still trecks along. The Legion is the one that is more fragile when it comes to losing the Dam, but they are still stated to have the most secure regions under their arm.
No idea where you get this "the point of Fallout is to nuke all nations" from New vegas. Seems more like some preexisting disturbing ideas on your part.
Monco
The Duck of Death
A. Confirmation bias, Hanlon believes the NCR's mission in the Mojave is inherently flawed and just not worth it, so one can argue that he only takes into account the evidence that suits his point of view
B.The point of the mission with Hildern was that the NCR was thinking ahead, they were planning for coming food shortages, it seems doubtful that studying vault 22's data was the only plan the NCR had to deal with coming shortages
C. Plenty of bloated and corrupt governments have existed for quite a long time. The NCR itself has exsisted for almost 100 years, obviously governments in Fallout aren't completely doomed to fail, or at least it takes them a very long time to fail
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Black Isle/Interplay. See Van Buren's endings. Its also why Chris Avellone said the nuke everything endings of Lonesome Road are the ones he believes is correct. It was always the intent to have everything get nuked.
That was the whole point of the cycle
Fallout 1 = Small towns on their own
Fallout 2 = Establishment of new nations
New Vegas = These new nations fighting each other over scare resources(Resource wars 2.0) ultimately ending with with the collapse of these new nations in atomic fire(great war 2.0)
Its a cycle showing human history repeating itself with the same results.
War, war never changes.
Empty09
Still Mildly Glowing
[Sarcastic] Who wants to know what happens to the NCR anyway? Do we get any Alien DLC for FO4?
fixed