What is your favorite Star Trek series?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by The Dutch Ghost, Feb 20, 2016.

What is your favorite series

  1. Star Trek The Original Series

    10 vote(s)
  2. Star Trek The Next Generation

    21 vote(s)
  3. Star Trek Deep Space Nine

    13 vote(s)
  4. Star Trek Voyager

    3 vote(s)
  5. Star Trek Enterprise

    2 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    Is star trek a soap opera that's meant for nerds? I've seen glimpses of one of its iterations, but it didn't appear to be much different from Santa Barbara for me at the time. Was i mistaken in my appraisal?
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Dunno, a soap opera is usually about the characters interacting with each other. Star Trek is a SciFi adventure, more about the planet-of-the-week and less about the all the character interactions. Character interaction and development does exist, but it's not the main focus.
  3. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    Hm, must have been something different then. The one i saw had a similar space ship, a crew, some alien dudes and all they did was talk, there was never any shots of them being somewhere else other than in some space ship.
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    That is what makes them interesting, the Borg are the 'ultimate other'. You can't play political games with them, you can not intimidate them, there is no point in placating them. If they consider your species or civilization useful they will take it and they won't ever give up until they do so.

    But yes, I agree, the Borg in Voyager rapidly became way to incompetent due to bad writing (and I honestly wish the Borg Queen was never introduced).
    This is why I brought up the Borg from 'Scorpion' which were still much like the TNG era one, not the weaker versions from Season 5, 6, and 7.

    When it comes to "Why did the Borg never invade en masse on the fact that writers would not know how to resolve such a storyline. If the TNG Borg had invaded with dozens of ships it would be over, plain and simple, the writers knew that. Only a super deus ex device would be able to solve the situation then.
    But the fault does not lie with the creation but the people handling it ;)

    Transwarp BTW was already introduced in TNG (Descent 1 and 2)
    The inconsistency however I blame on the writers of Voyager. When I heard about there being a Transwarp nexus or exit or whatever it was called close to Earth in "Endgame" I was also like "Wait what?! Why the hell was that never brought up before? Where did that come from? You idiots mean that the Borg could have invaded Earth and the Federation at any moment they wanted? Dammit, you should be flogged for this crap."

    Again, idiot writers, not the creation.

    I liked "Distant Origin" but it and the episode "the 37's" were pretty pointless as there is no repercussions to information or facts given in these episodes. Both episodes are basically filler, something Star Trek has suffered a lot off.

    The problem with the Cardassians and the Romulans is one that happens a lot with Star Trek species, humans go into space only to find themselves again. Sure the aliens have different appearance and origins but they still behave in ways humans can understand despite the whole "You could not comprehend us human".
    It can be used to write understandable action and political stories with but it does hardly justice to the concept of a 'non human'.

    I can understand that some of you don't like the Borg, but don't dis them okay?
    They didn't ruin the Star Trek universe and in fact reminded us that space might contain more strange things than we can imagine, wonders beyond our wildest imagination and terrors beyond our darkest nightmares.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Like I said, I don't have a problem with the idea, that goes behind the Borg. And there have been far more weird species in the ST universe, so really that is not the problem, one issue is that they somehow became the Nemesis (heh ... ) of the Star Fleet, even though, I don't like that idea much, but that was less the issue with the Borg. Actually, I think they have always been a very interesting part in The Next Generation, up to that point where they ruined everything, with the movies and Voyager, except for Seven of Nine which was a really cool character. But for me, It was simply the look of them, which well just doesn't seem very interesting or intriguing enough in my opinion, even silly and comical. But I blame that on the small budged they always had to deal with. But what really ruined it for me, have been the movies and Voyager. The scenes with Picard as part of the Collective and all the build up before the confrontation in The Next Generation, was actually pretty well done. The part of why the Borg didn't invade with all their strength, was created with that clusterfuck from the movies any later Voyager, as I said. In the Next Generation, they always left enough room that it doesn't bother you, because simply put, you just didn't know. Maybe they lost interest in earth - not worth the trouble - or the distance was to large, or they had not enough forces or what ever. I mean you remember Q? When he pushed the Enterprise so far away it would take decades to return to Star Fleet teritory?. It worked perfectly with the later episodes, beacause you could always say, alright! The Borg are fast, but even they need years to get to Star Fleet. You just couldn't know it. But the movie? First Contact? This fucking clusterfuck ... what first contact by the way, more like the third or fourth at this point. And those fucking Borgs had to get to earth AND their ship destroyed to travel trough time? But like you said. Shitty writers ...
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  6. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well the idea of using the Borg for a TNG movie is not bad and I did like First Contact at the time. (I still think it is the best TNG movie)
    But yeah, this movie's plot is somewhat rambling or illogical, especially the time travel bit.
    The reason why the Borg want to invade Earth and assimilate the Federation is because of its technology, military wise Starfleet does not pose a threat to it. (in the original script Earth was actually attacked by multiple Borg cubes and Starfleet could take them with much more ease, its weapons were suddenly a lot more powerful)

    No First Contact means no Federation and no technology for the Borg to add to its own, thus a plot that does not make much sense.
    Sure it does come over as quite epic with big stakes, but other than visual entertainment it is ridiculous and I do think it is part of what led to the fall of the Borg as a concept and antagonist for the various Starfleet crews.

    So I have to give you points there (not reluctant because you are right, but rather a sad realization of what the problem really is).

    I still love the Borg Collective as an antagonist to challenge our Starfleet protagonists mentally and physically, but should they ever return to the television screen or movie screen they need to be written better, and any story in which they are defeated yet again needs to be written in such a way to come over as believable.
  7. alec

    alec White heterosexual male Orderite

    May 21, 2003
    TOS and then TNG. There were plenty of reruns of TOS during my childhood years and then during my teens it was TNG.
  8. Illuminati Confirmed!

    Illuminati Confirmed! Banned

    Dec 15, 2015
    I didn't see First Contact in quite a long time, but it made sense when I did. The Borg could have just decided that a human-dominated Federation is more trouble than it's worth. It's not like those pesky Vulcans are going to be a challenge.

    But, since time travel is central to it, it's bound to be nonsensical to a point.
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Unfortunate that is the problem with time travel and not just in Star Trek, in general they always end up being absolute nonsense because logic is thrown out of the window.

    City on the Edge of Forever worked as the mission was to undo alteration of the past. (or complete a paradox that already existed)

    I don't think a human controlled Federation would be any more problematic than a Vulcan controlled Federation. I think the last would be even slower to expand and innovate. (not that the Vulcans are anti technology, they just don't seem very competitive)
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Forgot about Mr Plinkett but the flaws in the plot were already pointed out earlier.
    I just did not think about it earlier in the first post in when we talked about the Borg Collective.

    I guess when it comes to the Star Trek movies only 2, 3, 4, and 6 are worth watching. (5 has some excellent lines but the movie stinks. 1 may be the most sci fi ish Star Trek but it is also a cure for insomnia and is a rip off of the Changeling)
  12. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    Jul 2, 2015
    DS9 is one of my favorite television series of all time. I may not have the best perspective on this (I was 11 when it started airing), but it's one of the first television series (along with the similar Babylon 5) I ever saw that had a major emphasis on continuity and character development. Don't get me wrong, ToS and TNG have some great individual episodes, but they had a habit of resetting everything at the end of every episode so nothing ever evolved or changed. Picard spends an entire lifetime as someone else? He keeps a flute on his desk but otherwise remains exactly the same person he was before. That stuff never sat well with me.

    Combine DS9's emphasis on continuity and character development with the fact that it delves into some weighty territory and complicates the utopian veneer presented by other Treks and it's something I genuinely enjoy watching every few years. The first couple seasons have a fair bit of filler while they were still figuring out what the show was, but there are a bunch of guides to tell you what to skip online.
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, the writers of the movies should be punched in the face. I mean as with every Plinkett review, one should not take it TO seriously, it's all more a form of satire. However, that doesn't change the points he's making, like that you have pretty much two very different concepts at work here. The TV series, being more about diplomacy and avoiding violence, where as the movies are dump, simplified action for the masses. And I am not saying that because I hate this kind of action, it can certainly be very entertaining, if done well. But changing ST to be like that? Is pretty much equal to changing Fallout into Call of Duty ... wait ... didn't that just happen ...
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Oh yes, the dumbing down of brainy media has been going on for pretty much almost a decade or fifteen years.

    Satire is of course for entertainment, but true satire has a center of truth to confront people with.
    Like reviewers like Mr Plinkett point out, the TNG movies could stray further away from the television series, and the Abrams movies 'finally good' (read: appealing to the mainstream audience who prefer simplistic action over diplomacy, challenge of the intellect, and adventure that does not require explosions or deaths)
    I love a good action scene or an exciting chase scene, and there should definitely be some visual spectacle in a Star Trek movie to keep the audience on the edge of their seats, but it should not be such a movie's primary means of story telling.

    That is one of Star Trek's biggest problem: the reset button.
    You can't blame the original Star Trek series from doing that, back then there weren't that many series with continuity. Especially sci fi and fantasy series tended to be anthology series.

    But during TNG the writers started to realize that they could not continue with episodes like that, and during DSN the writers and producers finally wizened up.

    VGR however completely threw it out of the window, hence why the episodes involving big ideas such as 'Distant Origin' or the 'Borg Resistance' were in the end complete and utter useless.
    It did not have an impact on the crew or the galaxy at large.

    Imagine if we today met intelligent beings descended from dinosaurs that survived the mass extinction by going into space and came back today?
    The entire world would be upside down, theories need to be rewritten, we have to challenge our religious views. (especially the young earthers and creationists are going to hate this)

    Berman and Braga wanted to continue the same way with Enterprise, but by now Star Trek was kind of exhausted and was loosing watchers fast (it actually already happened during DSN and VGR), and after another pointless war arc that was meant to bring in the younger audience loving action, the killer Bs were forced to allow Coto to run Season 4.
    Coto tried to bring in elements from Star Trek people wanted to see such as exploring the Vulcans more, bring back the Augments, the increasing tension with the Klingons, hints of the Romulans, but by then it was already to late.
    The audience only has so much good will and it was spend on a trivial series and episodes.

    People weren't as much tired of Star Trek, they were tired of 'bad' Star Trek, and when nBSG aired and other shows like Firefly that has much more diverse characters and storylines, Star Trek simply could not compete anymore by going on in a traditional way.

    Now a new series is planned but I fear the executives still haven't learned a thing.
  15. Illuminati Confirmed!

    Illuminati Confirmed! Banned

    Dec 15, 2015
    If a new series is being made, it would be best if they went full Twilight Zone, with different characters and locations in every episode, making it possible for the lore of the series to shine without having to overly focus on character development. Or have a different ship, crew and mission every season.

    The classic characters like Kirk, Spock and Picard can't be topped anyway, so why even try?
  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am not saying it couldn't work, but that would be quite a huge change from the way how all the other Star Trek series worked. By the way, you would still have to find decent actors though, what ever if you make one episode/season always about new characters or the same characters.
  17. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    I'm afraid a new series will feel very "been there done that" at this point. Do they rehash old rivalries, another lost in space series, I don't know. They tried a prequel and that didn't exactly go well, so unless they jump ahead quite a bit in the timeline I'm not sure a new series would work. Oh, and fuck all that retcon different timeline crap too.
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I feel the same way Spacemunkey. Sometimes I think that Star Trek's era is over, there is little that can be done to make it feel all new again.
    A ST show about an alien crew? How is the regular watcher suppose to connect with those? Star Trek is the HUMAN adventure in space.
    Make them act like humans? Then why make the characters alien in the first place?
    Put the series further in the future? You run the risk that there basically technological solutions for all the problems a crew could run in to such as a some super transporter that can transport a crewmember out of a hazardous situation the regular transporter can not work around.

    I still think the franchise needs a very long break, and it needs some incredible imaginative and capable writers and producers in order to restore some life to it.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. AlbertCole

    AlbertCole First time out of the vault

    Mar 27, 2016
    Picard all the way. In my opinion he's the best captain.
  20. Juza The Cloud

    Juza The Cloud Nanto Goshasei

    Jun 3, 2015
    What does God need with a Starship.... How about to get me out of this awful film