Dr Fallout
Centurion
Woohoo! Addiction = fun!
Why are so many people buying this game?
- Thread starter Sduibek
- Start date
Woohoo! Addiction = fun!
frajaq
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It's hilarious to see the amount of excuses NMA makes to say they're not enjoying Fallout 4
S-stupid Bethesda, i-it's not like I like your games or anything!!!!
S-stupid Bethesda, i-it's not like I like your games or anything!!!!
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Or the excuses you make to come troll here. "Those big meanies at NMA! How dare they not bow down before Todd Howard and Pete Hines! Those infidels must pay!"
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
They should really give ISIS some lessons.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I actually stopped playing altogether a week ago, which was the last time we recorded footage for the youtube video.
whirlingdervish
Brahmin Cavalry Commander
Here's some real elitism:
I'm pretty sure this kind of game sells well for a simple reason: People (and most gamers by extension) are lazier than they've ever been and they still want the gratification that you get from accomplishment, even when they are not willing to work for that accomplishment.
It's in the same vein as people handing out participation trophies instead of actually celebrating the winners for doing something BETTER than someone else. The majority these days would rather play that game than one where you have to succeed based on your abilities to get praise.
Fallout 4 goes above and beyond any game in the series in handing out instantly gratifying things, like loot, power armor, high end guns, experience, perks and even the leadership of factions as if they were candy on Halloween. This appeals directly to the lazy because they can get all the things that you used to have to work for, for nothing more than buying the game. It's effectively a pay to win single player game, but you only pay once.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but playing games for me is about the challenge, which drives me to enjoy myself by overcoming the challenge.
If I cannot lose, there is nothing in the game for me. I want to be forced to do things like TRYING and LEARNING.
Having a game hand me shiny crap, or a win, or xp or gold or whatever kind of instant gratification substance, is just not fun. Earning those things in a game can be fun, but those things by themselves are not the fun.
If Fallout 4 is intended as a shooter, it's a crappy shooter with a win button (and you dont even get criticals without hitting this win button).
When I play shooters, I want to actually have to get better at shooting and tactics and movement. I prefer to do this vs real people since very few SP games seem to have decent AI that reacts intelligently and makes me have to be better. If it's not a multiplayer shooter, the AI becomes incredibly important to the difficulty level of the entire game, and simply upping their health and damage doesn't cut it. It's boring and repetitive to kill these kinds of AI, and you earn nothing by defeating them but a sore hand.
Fallout 4 has none of the things I want in a shooter since the vast majority of it's combat is relegated to firing from stupidly far away at dumb AI that doesn't notice it, to holding +back and firing at stupid AI as you kite them until they get close enough and you can cram on your easy button again after a short delay.
If people are buying it as some sort of open world shooter, they're people who are probably not any good at skill based shooters, or too lazy to play a shooter game with a real learning curve (something like quake, where you will never be unbeatable, even with thousands of hours of practice).
They want the thousands of kills of a shooter, but they don't want to work for them.
The very same goes for the title, if it is meant to be a western CRPG.
All of the RPG parts are incredibly shallow and are mostly just ways to railroad you into winning in 1 of 2 possible ways, according to 1 of 2 possible stories that they've already written for you. There is no real accomplishment to be had and incredibly few roles to even play, and most of the mechanics are tuned so that you can't possibly miss out on any of the content on a single character no matter what you do.
When I play an RPG I want to actually be able to make bad choices and have negative consequences to those choices, among which missing out is a major one. I want to be able to make mistakes and I want to pay for my mistakes.
This is how you learn to be better or smarter or to not make stupid decisions for your character the NEXT TIME you play. This is how you can actually change the world in which your character is living so that in different playthroughs you actually feel as though you accomplished something new or meaningful (and from that gain FUN)
Choice is the very core of a role playing game and the expression of it is the playing of your chosen role in the world of the game. Fallout 4 has almost none of this, so it ends up being an easy mode RPG where all the hard stuff like making choices, or dying, or failing a quest are taken out.
If you can't chose your role, or replay it and get a different outcome, or you can't actually chose to say no to a single quest and still progress the game toward the end, it's not really an RPG. At that point it is just an adventure/action game with progress gates triggered by stupidly simple puzzles masquerading as quests and dialogue.
I'm pretty sure this kind of game sells well for a simple reason: People (and most gamers by extension) are lazier than they've ever been and they still want the gratification that you get from accomplishment, even when they are not willing to work for that accomplishment.
It's in the same vein as people handing out participation trophies instead of actually celebrating the winners for doing something BETTER than someone else. The majority these days would rather play that game than one where you have to succeed based on your abilities to get praise.
Fallout 4 goes above and beyond any game in the series in handing out instantly gratifying things, like loot, power armor, high end guns, experience, perks and even the leadership of factions as if they were candy on Halloween. This appeals directly to the lazy because they can get all the things that you used to have to work for, for nothing more than buying the game. It's effectively a pay to win single player game, but you only pay once.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but playing games for me is about the challenge, which drives me to enjoy myself by overcoming the challenge.
If I cannot lose, there is nothing in the game for me. I want to be forced to do things like TRYING and LEARNING.
Having a game hand me shiny crap, or a win, or xp or gold or whatever kind of instant gratification substance, is just not fun. Earning those things in a game can be fun, but those things by themselves are not the fun.
If Fallout 4 is intended as a shooter, it's a crappy shooter with a win button (and you dont even get criticals without hitting this win button).
When I play shooters, I want to actually have to get better at shooting and tactics and movement. I prefer to do this vs real people since very few SP games seem to have decent AI that reacts intelligently and makes me have to be better. If it's not a multiplayer shooter, the AI becomes incredibly important to the difficulty level of the entire game, and simply upping their health and damage doesn't cut it. It's boring and repetitive to kill these kinds of AI, and you earn nothing by defeating them but a sore hand.
Fallout 4 has none of the things I want in a shooter since the vast majority of it's combat is relegated to firing from stupidly far away at dumb AI that doesn't notice it, to holding +back and firing at stupid AI as you kite them until they get close enough and you can cram on your easy button again after a short delay.
If people are buying it as some sort of open world shooter, they're people who are probably not any good at skill based shooters, or too lazy to play a shooter game with a real learning curve (something like quake, where you will never be unbeatable, even with thousands of hours of practice).
They want the thousands of kills of a shooter, but they don't want to work for them.
The very same goes for the title, if it is meant to be a western CRPG.
All of the RPG parts are incredibly shallow and are mostly just ways to railroad you into winning in 1 of 2 possible ways, according to 1 of 2 possible stories that they've already written for you. There is no real accomplishment to be had and incredibly few roles to even play, and most of the mechanics are tuned so that you can't possibly miss out on any of the content on a single character no matter what you do.
When I play an RPG I want to actually be able to make bad choices and have negative consequences to those choices, among which missing out is a major one. I want to be able to make mistakes and I want to pay for my mistakes.
This is how you learn to be better or smarter or to not make stupid decisions for your character the NEXT TIME you play. This is how you can actually change the world in which your character is living so that in different playthroughs you actually feel as though you accomplished something new or meaningful (and from that gain FUN)
Choice is the very core of a role playing game and the expression of it is the playing of your chosen role in the world of the game. Fallout 4 has almost none of this, so it ends up being an easy mode RPG where all the hard stuff like making choices, or dying, or failing a quest are taken out.
If you can't chose your role, or replay it and get a different outcome, or you can't actually chose to say no to a single quest and still progress the game toward the end, it's not really an RPG. At that point it is just an adventure/action game with progress gates triggered by stupidly simple puzzles masquerading as quests and dialogue.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
I keep playing, on a quest to uncover the stupidity of the game. All of it.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I just find it so boring...
Dr Fallout
Centurion
It is but I must keep going!
Riven326
First time out of the vault
I wasn't dismissing criticism.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
If you wanna know some dumb stuff
The game does not anticipate your intention to kill your own shit-stain of a son. It was inconcievable to Bethesda that this might be your desire. I once shot the fucker as soon as I meet him, the game does not seem to react to this in ANY way, all you can do is hang around his dead body, or just walk back to where you came from.
On 2nd attempt, I let him live, let him finish babbling - he ACTUALLY sends me to kill raiders. Yes, you heard right: Your own fucking son sens you to kill more raiders. That's the depth of it. In the end climax, when I butcher all of the institute, I also save a bullet for him. Again, the game seems to take NO notice of this, whatsoever. Nobody comments it, you don't acknowledge it, and apparently I'm not supposed to, there's a last encounter with Shaun in the ruins of the institude, that I am... half curious of... but he's dead, so I can'tGood riddance anyway. What a psychopath.
There's also a point where Shaun tells you that the commonwealth is a failed society, and as always, you are given 4 different options to whole-heartedly agree with him. Why!? Wtf, that's NOT what I see - I see a society that _survives_ and that _intends on surviving_, how the hell is that a failure? Because of all the rusty walls, and trashy floors? But apparently, that's the narrowmindedness imposed right on you - all you see is the brokenness of society. You are not allowed to see anything elseWait so you can kill FATHER when you first encounter him and nothing is affected by his death? Do you still go through the rest of the story line like as if he was still alive or does it turn out to fail the quest if you kill him on first contact? I am surprised nobody has retained basic home building skills like placing down new flooring, picking up the skeletons just lying around, replacing Windows, replacing walls and roofing, and picking up a damn broom. I'm not sure how they can live in run down huts or houses like that, I see the occasional place with some crops growing but that has been rare for me to find many places like that and the area of Boston feels DEAD. Like super dead, it doesn't even seem like people give two shits about surviving.
If you kill Father right when you first meet him, you'll have no choice but to leave the Institute almost-permanently, and the synths will stay hostile. You then have to work with Preston Garvey (of all the people) and the Minutemen. They're essentially the fallback option - if you manage to piss off the Institute, the Railroad AND the Brotherhood, the Minutemen is your only remaining option. They're the only ones who do not remain permanently hostile, nor can their leaders die (you and Garvey).
In the end, the Railroad, BoS and Minutemen ending are EXACTLY the same - you launch an assault into the Institute, then place a something-something on the nuclear reactor that powers it, before leaving to activate it from the outside and watch it. The ending only differs in what NPCs stand beside you at the explosion, and who becomes available to get more Radiant sidequests from post-ending. The Institute is exactly the same as the other three endings, except there's no nuke. Essentially, nothing changes before or after the ending, which makes me question why there even was an ending.
It's like if you finish the Battle at Hoover Dam in F:NV, then whichever faction you sided with is the only one that doesn't disappear. Then you're booted back into the game to do all the sidequests, with the only difference being city guard dialogue acknowledging that you may have taken part in the battle.
In the end, the Railroad, BoS and Minutemen ending are EXACTLY the same - you launch an assault into the Institute, then place a something-something on the nuclear reactor that powers it, before leaving to activate it from the outside and watch it. The ending only differs in what NPCs stand beside you at the explosion, and who becomes available to get more Radiant sidequests from post-ending. The Institute is exactly the same as the other three endings, except there's no nuke. Essentially, nothing changes before or after the ending, which makes me question why there even was an ending.
It's like if you finish the Battle at Hoover Dam in F:NV, then whichever faction you sided with is the only one that doesn't disappear. Then you're booted back into the game to do all the sidequests, with the only difference being city guard dialogue acknowledging that you may have taken part in the battle.
I don't understand why they could not do some ending for the case the player decides to kill ... all factions. Why not? It would even work with the idea of open-end gameplay. Just give it some slide, saying "... the Commonwealth is now without any leadership but the sole survivor ... yada yada".
The first time I played Deus Ex 2, this is exactly what I did. I hated ALL of the 4 different groups which asked for your help, the game simply dissapointed me. But I was really surprised to see, hey, they really gave you an ending for killing them all! That was pretty neat.
The first time I played Deus Ex 2, this is exactly what I did. I hated ALL of the 4 different groups which asked for your help, the game simply dissapointed me. But I was really surprised to see, hey, they really gave you an ending for killing them all! That was pretty neat.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Personally, I don't understand why Fallout 4 allows you to kill off any faction EXCEPT Preston Garvey and his Minutemen. The faction is literally dead by the time the games starts (it's why you become the leader so quickly - Preston is the only member remaining before you decide to help). Plus, nobody likes Preston Garvey. Not the mainstream playerbase, not fans of Bethesda like me, no one here. They picked a inexperienced voice actor to voice a role that constantly gave you repetitive sidequests, and whose attitude pisses every player off. And the Minutemen as a concept - a loosely-tied organisation of civilians turned vigilantes without any form of self-sustenance - cannot last.
They're literally giving the crappiest faction to you in the case that you make enemies with everyone else. In that sense, they're PUNISHING you for not going along with the game the way they wanted it to go. Sorry, wanted to kill everyone and see the consequences? No, here's a guy who gives you quests to shoot stuff and save people, again and again. Want to kill him too? Nice try. You're not getting past us.
What exactly is your point?
That's a rethorical question, here is your point: We are all insincere. This is some kind of elite-club, where it's forbidden to like Fallout 4. If we like it, we get ridiculed, and frozen out of the community.
So, yeah, you totally busted it wide open man, we all LOVE Fallout 4, BEST. GAME. EVER.
But we simply do not dare to admit it
This is how low, and petty we are *sob*
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Why do you do that to yourself, I haven't picked up 4 in however long because it's so boring. I just picked up Fallout and Fallout 2 again. Oh and WOW frajaq just keep being the Bethesda apologist you are with all those poorly written excuses.
And what is also annoying, they give the most boring faction one of the coolest bases in the game. The Castle is an awesome location where you can have a lot of fun rebuilding it and it has quite a high building ceiling. The Prydwen is great, but you can't build anything here or settle it. The Castle on the other hand... I wish I could claim it for the Brotherhood right off the bat and then be allowed to govern it for them. Now that would be great if you ask me.
I played two nights at first, rushed the quest, just to see what it was about
I started a new game on day 3, and spent the next 2-3 days trying to drag it out and thoroughly collect quests (that aren't radiant), and in order to boost a companion like, I found myself roced to... do many, MANY radiant quests o_-
After finishing all the quests I could find, I was at a serious loss. It simply isn't desireable to try to enjoy the environment, cus it's either raining mutants and raiders, or, well, raining mutants and raiders... I was gonna suggest your settlements to hang out and puzzle, but shit, mutants storm you there too, and often. Often...
I begun to wonder what exactly interests me, what am I bothering for? Oh, yes, the enclave armor! I found it. A settler stole it, and put it in the wilderness somewhere, SO... now what? Well, now I'm officially bored. I'm waiting for Final Fantasy 7 Remake now.
About a week was what it took, and the trainwreck of FO3 kept me replaying for months, simply because I could overlook the annoying quests, and just try to enjoy some atmosphere. This is SO weird, to remember FO3 "fondly"... in comparison :I I never thought the day would come... :I
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
What is with all of the super mutants? I see them and gore bags hanging/lying around everywhere it seems. I see ghouls In a lot of places too, I've seen very few friendly NPC ghouls.
Hey everybody.
I've actually been discussing this with some other people on other forums and whatnot. The reason Fallout 4 is so popular is a bit difficult to grasp, but it's fairly simple.
As a forward: I apologize if I'm not adding anything to the discussion; I realize I'm posting this six pages deep. Anyway--
Although I'm first and foremost a graphic designer, I do contract work for a very successful marketing company and I've done all the courses--and I know 100% what Bethesda's doing. They're employing a subliminal and "cult" marketing scheme that works insanely well and has for a long time.
I want you to think real quick about the character Deadpool. Now, when I was a kid, I loved reading Deadpool. I still think he's a great character, even though I only occasionally grab an arc to read.
Go to any store, especially, say, Hot Topic (a store I'll mention frequently in this pseudo-diatribe), and you'll see so. much. Deadpool stuff. People can't get enough. When that first Deadpool movie trailer hit the internet, people couldn't help but talk about it to no end; to share the trailer, to make their precious "memes" based around the character. Check out those daily shirt websites that sell parody shirts; lots of Deadpool stuff. Yet talk to anyone who's buying this stuff and it's almost guaranteed they really know nothing about the guy, much less have they cracked the spine of one of his books. So what gives?
Well, there are two reasons: One, the collective conscience knows that he's been around for a while now, and anything that's been around for a while now, a thing that has a "legacy," automatically gets a ton of "cult" points within our current media and product-guzzling, retro-obsessed culture. But the other reason is because the people behind the marketing of the Deadpool brand, a brand that is a comic book that really only comic book people read, are creating a "need" for the character. They are telling you that you love Deadpool, that's he's awesome, and that it's awesome to own Deadpool's products. Well, Bethesda is doing the exact same thing with the Fallout brand, taking the series that had a lot to teach us about the silliness of useless consumerism and, ironically, pumping out all kinds of kitschy products for us to buy. Vault 111 shoes, headphones, computer mice? Why not?! It'll go well with the Vault-Boy shirt and bobble head you bought at Hot Topic. Bethesda is telling us, basically, "guys, this game is HUGE. This game is important. You love this game. It's so "epic."
Fallout has so strangely invaded our consumer self-conscious that I'm kind of surprised there isn't actually more to buy But check it out, everybody knows what Fallout is. Everybody's talking about it. Haha! Did you see the picture Stephanie shared joking about how her boyfriend is addicted to Fallout? Have you seen all the Facebook posts from Chad about how he "needs" to play Fallout 4, how he went out and bought the Season Pass, which is literally throwing money at nothing and having faith that it will make you happy? Fallout has entered our bloodstream Bethesda is putting a lot of money into this brand, even going so far as to obviously paying off reviewers to give it glowing commendations. Hell, I read a review where the reviewer literally praised the game for being glitchy.
It's sad to see, but the art side of Fallout is dying, and we have now entered the consumer brand side of it. Bethesda will continue to dumb the series down as well, as the consumer who wants to buy the brand he's being told to buy has fewer standards for quality. Chad, who never played Fallout 1 and 2, yet knows that they exist and that they're "old computer games," doesn't care about deep stories, good characterization, or gameplay depth. He's being led like a cow to the consumer's pasture, and that's what Bethesda's banking on. The same idiot who buys the new Call of Duty every year will spend money on Fallout 4, and he'll love it, too, because the reviewers said it was good, and, hell, why not? When your standard of quality is "point and shoot," "point and shoot in an open world" probably seems pretty awesome, glitches and tonal irregularity be damned. Notice all the aforementioned memetic discussion and obsession over Fallout 4 on social media and compare it to, say, Metal Gear Solid V, which is by all account a pretty phenomenal (if flawed) piece of art, which is really only being discussed amongst its fans. Which isn't selling a Venom Snake shirt or bobblehead in Hot Topic, or Jones sodas, or what-have-you.
BUY.
I've actually been discussing this with some other people on other forums and whatnot. The reason Fallout 4 is so popular is a bit difficult to grasp, but it's fairly simple.
As a forward: I apologize if I'm not adding anything to the discussion; I realize I'm posting this six pages deep. Anyway--
Although I'm first and foremost a graphic designer, I do contract work for a very successful marketing company and I've done all the courses--and I know 100% what Bethesda's doing. They're employing a subliminal and "cult" marketing scheme that works insanely well and has for a long time.
I want you to think real quick about the character Deadpool. Now, when I was a kid, I loved reading Deadpool. I still think he's a great character, even though I only occasionally grab an arc to read.
Go to any store, especially, say, Hot Topic (a store I'll mention frequently in this pseudo-diatribe), and you'll see so. much. Deadpool stuff. People can't get enough. When that first Deadpool movie trailer hit the internet, people couldn't help but talk about it to no end; to share the trailer, to make their precious "memes" based around the character. Check out those daily shirt websites that sell parody shirts; lots of Deadpool stuff. Yet talk to anyone who's buying this stuff and it's almost guaranteed they really know nothing about the guy, much less have they cracked the spine of one of his books. So what gives?
Well, there are two reasons: One, the collective conscience knows that he's been around for a while now, and anything that's been around for a while now, a thing that has a "legacy," automatically gets a ton of "cult" points within our current media and product-guzzling, retro-obsessed culture. But the other reason is because the people behind the marketing of the Deadpool brand, a brand that is a comic book that really only comic book people read, are creating a "need" for the character. They are telling you that you love Deadpool, that's he's awesome, and that it's awesome to own Deadpool's products. Well, Bethesda is doing the exact same thing with the Fallout brand, taking the series that had a lot to teach us about the silliness of useless consumerism and, ironically, pumping out all kinds of kitschy products for us to buy. Vault 111 shoes, headphones, computer mice? Why not?! It'll go well with the Vault-Boy shirt and bobble head you bought at Hot Topic. Bethesda is telling us, basically, "guys, this game is HUGE. This game is important. You love this game. It's so "epic."
Fallout has so strangely invaded our consumer self-conscious that I'm kind of surprised there isn't actually more to buy But check it out, everybody knows what Fallout is. Everybody's talking about it. Haha! Did you see the picture Stephanie shared joking about how her boyfriend is addicted to Fallout? Have you seen all the Facebook posts from Chad about how he "needs" to play Fallout 4, how he went out and bought the Season Pass, which is literally throwing money at nothing and having faith that it will make you happy? Fallout has entered our bloodstream Bethesda is putting a lot of money into this brand, even going so far as to obviously paying off reviewers to give it glowing commendations. Hell, I read a review where the reviewer literally praised the game for being glitchy.
It's sad to see, but the art side of Fallout is dying, and we have now entered the consumer brand side of it. Bethesda will continue to dumb the series down as well, as the consumer who wants to buy the brand he's being told to buy has fewer standards for quality. Chad, who never played Fallout 1 and 2, yet knows that they exist and that they're "old computer games," doesn't care about deep stories, good characterization, or gameplay depth. He's being led like a cow to the consumer's pasture, and that's what Bethesda's banking on. The same idiot who buys the new Call of Duty every year will spend money on Fallout 4, and he'll love it, too, because the reviewers said it was good, and, hell, why not? When your standard of quality is "point and shoot," "point and shoot in an open world" probably seems pretty awesome, glitches and tonal irregularity be damned. Notice all the aforementioned memetic discussion and obsession over Fallout 4 on social media and compare it to, say, Metal Gear Solid V, which is by all account a pretty phenomenal (if flawed) piece of art, which is really only being discussed amongst its fans. Which isn't selling a Venom Snake shirt or bobblehead in Hot Topic, or Jones sodas, or what-have-you.
BUY.