Fallout: New Vegas quest troubleshooting (spoilers)

[FearMonkey]

So, here's an update. I got a virus so I had to scrape and reload my OS and I bought a new HDD and set up my old one as a slave so I could copy all my old saves off of it, etc. etc. Took a while to get everything back up and running. Anyway, when I started it up again, I decided to challenge myself by re-doing Come Fly With Me and try to get through there without using any Stealth Boys whatsoever. So I did.

It actually wasn't too bad except for sneaking past the ghouls on and around the catwalk leading up to where Jason's non-feral group are. I did get a lot more radiation this time because I had to run by the ghouls in the canyon leading to REPCONN three times instead of two.

Another reason I wanted to redo Come Fly With Me was because I missed some XP from doing various things like using Science skill on the navigation console to do course correction before the launch. The only way to do that though was to do part of the Helios One quest while I was back in Novac getting the stuff Chris needed to start the grand journey. I just did Helios One as far as getting the codes to the terminals from the two scientists. I did speech checks in their conversation which helped push me to level 6 so I could get my Science to 45 and then use a skill magazine to get it to 55 so I could use the console. I didn't want to finish the rest of Helios One yet because there are dogs guarding a terminal and I'd rather come back later when I have the Animal Friend perk. Assuming that works. :p

Anyway, after I finished that up, I headed up to Boulder City and did that mission. I was now ready to go to New Vegas!

Except, I noticed Lt. Monroe start to walk off to the south. So I followed him and ended up at Camp Forlorn Hope and started doing some quests there. And then I noticed that I could see Hoover Dam from there so I went there and walked around for like hours and found some cool Stealth Armor. Then I headed back to Forlorn Hope and decided I needed to go back to Novac to stash some of this crap back in my hotel room. So I went south from there and ended up at Nelson and found out (from the Fallout Wiki) that the Restoring Hope quest line is going to end up requiring me to kill people.

So now I'm screwed and I might have to do all that Forlorn Hope stuff over again. :p

Again, it's just really odd. The quest-line starts out innocuous enough where I have to find some lost supplies and then help the doctor with some patients and then all of a sudden I'm leading the troops to Nelson and I have to go slaughter people. Just seems...odd...that the quests are set up this way. I dunno. *shrug*

The other thing about this pacifist playthrough is I'm also trying to role-play my character as independent as possible. She's not trying to take anyone's side except her own. And if that means helping the NCR out with some errands while helping the Legion a little bit as well, so be it. But I can't help one Faction attack the other one. That's just not part of her philosophy.

Oh well, unless there's another way out of this, I guess I'm gonna have to go back to before I started the Restoring Hope quest-line. I can still do some of the other quests in the area at least, like Return to Sender and Medical Mystery. *shrug*

I really like this Chinese Stealth Armor though. Pretty badass. <3

 

[Mameluk]

If you want to go pacifist through the game, then siding with Yes Man is the only option for you. As far as I remember he doesn't require you to kill anyone, unless BOS, but I think you can convince them to help NCR even if you don't work for them instead of blowing them up (as House, Caesar and Moore want you to).

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

I didn't want to finish the rest of Helios One yet because there are dogs guarding a terminal and I'd rather come back later when I have the Animal Friend perk. Assuming that works.

Erm, Animal Friend perk isn't needed. Just run, use computer, run, that's all.

About Restoring Hope, just do it. NCR soldiers will kill every enemy, not you. And it's ok with you with your approach.

This is going to be my "technical pacifist" playthrough. i.e. I don't directly kill anyone, but if people die as a result of my actions, so be it.

Btw. Return to Sender and Medical Mystery no need any killing.

 

[FearMonkey]

If you want to go pacifist through the game, then siding with Yes Man is the only option for you. As far as I remember he doesn't require you to kill anyone, unless BOS, but I think you can convince them to help NCR even if you don't work for them instead of blowing them up (as House, Caesar and Moore want you to).

I don't know who Yes Man is. I assume that's a spoiler so I won't look it up. :p

Erm, Animal Friend perk isn't needed. Just run, use computer, run, that's all.

It's just a role-paying choice on my part. Character saw doggies, went "awwwwwww..." and said, "I'll deal with this later" and left. :p

Btw. Return to Sender and Medical Mystery no need any killing.

I finished Medical Mystery already. Return to Sender I was guessing it was fairly non-violent. But who knows with this game. :p

Good to know I can finish it as a pacifist though. No surprises in store for me.

About Restoring Hope, just do it. NCR soldiers will kill every enemy, not you. And it's ok with you with your approach.

Yeah, but I'll get negative faction with Caesar's Legion. I wanted to stay as Neutral as possible with everybody. I doubt I can be "Accepted" with everybody so I'm hoping for at least "Neutral". If I can't, oh well, I'll deal. I can always resort to disguises I suppose. :p

Speaking of which, I just did Back in Your Own Backyard without raising alarms and without anybody dying. I gained fame with NCR and gained infamy with the Legion, but it still said I was "Neutral" with the Legion. So after going to Novac to lighten my load and then coming back, I walked into Nelson and the Legion soldiers started shooting at me. But the game says my Faction with them is Neutral. WTF? o_O

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

You shouldn't get infamy for Caesar's Legion if only NCR troopers will kill. Really, try.

You propably miss one quest with Nelson, when one NCR trooper ask you for releasing other NCR guys from Nelson or kill them in mercy, that one will give you negative reputation for Caesar.

About Helios, ok, nice roleplaying, you should try in future tribal character, game will be funny.

 

[FearMonkey]

You propably miss one quest with Nelson, when one NCR trooper ask you for releasing other NCR guys from Nelson or kill them in mercy, that one will give you negative for Caesar.

That's Back in Your Own Backyard. There's a way to do that without killing anybody. But you still get Infamy. But like I said, my Faction with them is still Neutral. And prior to that mission I could walk around without Legion armor, but now I need Legion armor to walk around there without anybody shooting at me. It's weird.

Really quick side-note on the music. I really dislike the music at Hoover Dam. It's so intense and fast-paced. It's really out of place where there is *currently* nothing happening. It's just a bunch of people going about their daily routine. It made me really anxious while walking around there. Like time was of the essence! Hurry!

But there's no reason to hurry. Nothing is happening. It's just so out of place at that time. Limit of the Gamebryo Engine. Not being able to have situational music or something?

Anyway, it's good music, just feels out of place at the moment.

 

[SnapSlav]

Speaking of which, I just did Back in Your Own Backyard without raising alarms and without anybody dying. I gained fame with NCR and gained infamy with the Legion, but it still said I was "Neutral" with the Legion. So after going to Novac to lighten my load and then coming back, I walked into Nelson and the Legion soldiers started shooting at me. But the game says my Faction with them is Neutral. WTF? o_O

That's Back in Your Own Backyard. There's a way to do that without killing anybody. But you still get Infamy. But like I said, my Faction with them is still Neutral. And prior to that mission I could walk around without Legion armor, but now I need Legion armor to walk around there without anybody shooting at me. It's weird.

There's nothing weird about any of that. The Legion were using the soldiers as hostages in one sense to safeguard the camp from any immediate counterattack, and in another sense because that's just how the Legion rolls when they think of "justice". They were the all-important "DO NOT TOUCH" element of that camp, so of course anyone who did so (let alone safely rescued them) would be branded a traitor. If it's because you managed to free them without anyone noticing, and you don't understand how the Legion knows it was you.... Well, again, that's just Oblivion Engine fun. You could argue that the karma system is just as ridiculous. How did the WORLD come to know that you put those feral ghouls out of their misery? How did the WORLD know that you lifted every item from every store shelf and then sell them at their competitor's outfit? The answer is no one would know, but the engine has to have some form of empirical calculation of your actions behind the scenes, and that tally affects how the rest of the game responds to you. It's not perfect, it doesn't even necessarily make sense, it's just how the engine works.

Yes and no, the identity of Yes Man is kinda spoilers. All he really is, is the go-to NPC for the Independent approach. There's LOTS more to him, of course. But you'll thoroughly enjoy uncovering it yourself, when you get there (and he's awesome, so you WILL enjoy it)!

Sometimes the dogs aren't there guarding the terminal. It's not even clear as to why (whether it's intended, or the result of a glitch, or story/world progression, etc). You don't need Animal Friend to get past them, but obviously, to account for the instances that they ARE still there, it certainly helps.

What you need to keep in mind about Faction Rating is that Infamy and Fame are independent of one another, and they NEVER drop. When you obtain Infamy for a faction, you CAN'T offset it with Fame. When you do something bad for a faction, they will always remember you for it. Some factions simply have higher tolerance for varying levels of Infamy, so long as you meet a minimum level of Fame with them (Ex. Anything above neutral for NCR and they'll leave you alone, but you need to be VERY liked by the Powder Gangers for them to overlook the slightest amounts of mischief). The Legion and NCR are the only 2 factions that have a one time only instance of erasing all Infamy from their records, but other than that, all Infamy you accrue over the course of the game is permanent. And ALL Fame is always permanent (this matters, because some factions will be hostile or unreceptive to you if you're on good terms with another; again, largely Legion/NCR).

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

(this matters, because some factions will be hostile or unreceptive to you if you're on good terms with another; again, largely Legion/NCR

That one is not true. U can have great reputation with every faction without problems.

 

[SnapSlav]

Look into it. It is true.

 

[FearMonkey]

There's nothing weird about any of that. The Legion were using the soldiers as hostages in one sense to safeguard the camp from any immediate counterattack, and in another sense because that's just how the Legion rolls when they think of "justice". They were the all-important "DO NOT TOUCH" element of that camp, so of course anyone who did so (let alone safely rescued them) would be branded a traitor. If it's because you managed to free them without anyone noticing, and you don't understand how the Legion knows it was you.... Well, again, that's just Oblivion Engine fun. You could argue that the karma system is just as ridiculous. How did the WORLD come to know that you put those feral ghouls out of their misery? How did the WORLD know that you lifted every item from every store shelf and then sell them at their competitor's outfit? The answer is no one would know, but the engine has to have some form of empirical calculation of your actions behind the scenes, and that tally affects how the rest of the game responds to you. It's not perfect, it doesn't even necessarily make sense, it's just how the engine works.

Well, that's why Obsidian were smart and separated Karma from Reputation in New Vegas while Fallout 3 only had Karma, right? So in a case like this where I freed the hostages without anybody seeing me except the NCR soldiers that I freed, I should gain Reputation from NCR, but if the Legion didn't see that I was the one who did it, I shouldn't necessarily lose Reputation with them, right? I'm so confused. :p

Also, funny story, my stats show I have killed no people or creatures but my Karma is Very Evil because I steal a lot of stuff. Meanwhile, I am freeing slaves and prisoners and saving peoples lives and even entire towns like Novac, but because I've been stealing shit left and right, I'm "very evil". LOL

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I didn't want to finish the rest of Helios One yet because there are dogs guarding a terminal and I'd rather come back later when I have the Animal Friend perk. Assuming that works. :p

I remember reading somewhere that you can also disguise yourself as an NCR trooper and the dogs won't be hostile.

 

[FearMonkey]

I didn't want to finish the rest of Helios One yet because there are dogs guarding a terminal and I'd rather come back later when I have the Animal Friend perk. Assuming that works. :p

I remember reading somewhere that you can also disguise yourself as an NCR trooper and the dogs won't be hostile.

Oh neat. I'll have to try that. Thanks.

 

[Ilosar]

Also, funny story, my stats show I have killed no people or creatures but my Karma is Very Evil because I steal a lot of stuff. Meanwhile, I am freeing slaves and prisoners and saving peoples lives and even entire towns like Novac, but because I've been stealing shit left and right, I'm "very evil". LOL

And my present char is killing people left and right with abandon (mostly Powder Gangers, Legion troopers and assorted raiders) and is ''good''. Keep in mind I've installed a mod that makes it so Gangers no longer give good karma when killed. Just shows how utterly broken and useless the karma system is.

 

[SnapSlav]

That's exactly my point. Players find themselves being categorized by the game as a saint when their major accomplishments are wholesale slaughter, or categorized as a scourge because of their opportunistic tendencies despite their active stance on doing good in the world around them. It's a system that HAS to exist, but can't function perfectly, for everyone. I for one often reload dozens of times in battles, in Fallout and Fallout 2 because my companions would score a kill and I'd miss out on the miniscule karma boosts from it. It didn't make sense, to me, but the whole system made perfect sense.

The problems you're noticing still aren't "weird", you're just noticing how it could have been "better". I'm constantly scrutinizing the game and imagining what mods I would love that would make it "perfect", for me. This is something that arguably I would be alone in, but then again there are lots of players who felt like Hardcore Mode was too much for them, so being an odd-man-out is FINE by me! XD But the point is, it works, and it makes sense, it's just you that's having an issue with it. I'm sure Bethesda INTENDED that you could drastically change your karma in FO3 by simple, arbitrary acts because they didn't want their karma system to be "too permanent", but that doesn't mean it was a good idea. The Faction Reputation system is great, and lots of its quirks are awesome (like being able to dress up as a member of a faction, shoot up a bunch of their opposing faction members, and no one would be the wise once you took off your "disguise"), but it's not without it's imperfections.

It's INTENDED that taking action in many quests have subsequent Reputation drops, regardless of how subtle you were. No one survived the Ghost Town Gunfight on the Powder Ganger side, but their faction still needed to "know" that you were against them. Same think with Nelson and the hostages. Besides, you could look at it this way: For some convenient reason, despite being on hostile terms with nearly EVERYONE they run into, the Legion graciously allows you to walk right into their camp without immediately crucifying you. You're the only person they've allowed to come and go, unlike anyone else, because the camp is in otherwise perpetual lockdown. Now, all of a sudden, the hostages are missing, and the scouts are reporting that the NCR keeping watch over the camp are celebrating the safe return of said hostages. They'd PROBABLY have good reason to suspect you, and want you dead.

 

[FearMonkey]

I *believe* I'm experiencing a bug. Been trying and retrying this to no avail. Unless I'm doing something wrong.

I re-did Back in Your Own Backyard. I was weaing my Chinese Stealth Armor. I rescued the hostages with no alerts. I talked to Milo to end the quest. I then changed into my Legionnaire Recruit Armor and went back to Nelson. They all started shooting at me. I checked my Factions and they were all reset as per the rules of wearing Faction armor. So why did they all aggro on me?

Also, as a lark, while everyone was shooting at me, I entered the barracks where Dead Sea was and he was not aggro'd at me and I was able to talk to him and everything. After the conversation was over, the soldiers continued to shoot at me.

So is that a bug or what? o_O

 

[Mameluk]

Was any Legionnaire hanging around when you've been rescuing the hostages? If I recall correctly there are a few guarding the site. Also, there are at least two in that towers around Nelson, so maybe they set on being aggresive towards you even if you wear their armor? Not sure if that makes sense...
Tell you what, try fast travelling to some other place and come back after 24 hours, wearing the faction armor, that might work.

 

[Walpknut]

Maybe you walked near a Dog or something¿

 

[FearMonkey]

Was any Legionnaire hanging around when you've been rescuing the hostages? If I recall correctly there are a few guarding the site. Also, there are at least two in that towers around Nelson, so maybe they set on being aggresive towards you even if you wear their armor? Not sure if that makes sense...

Yeah, there were Legionnaire's around in the towers but I was "Hidden" so they didn't detect me rescuing the hostages. Nobody shot at me as I left, so as far as I know they didn't see me.

Tell you what, try fast travelling to some other place and come back after 24 hours, wearing the faction armor, that might work.

Did that. Didn't work.

Maybe you walked near a Dog or something¿

While I was rescuing them or when I came back? There was a dog in the camp when I rescued them but it was far away from me.

When I came back, I didn't walk by the dog. The guard shot at me first.

EDIT: Decided instead of going to Nelson I would go to another Legionnaire Outpost so I went to Techatticup Mines disguised as a Legionnaire and everybody was friendly to me until I entered one area and then all of a sudden they all attacked me. They were calling me "Profligate" though. Does that mean they weren't reacting to my "disguise"?

EDIT^2: Went back to an earlier save before I was "Accepted" by NCR to see if that had anything to do with it. I walked into Nelson disguised in Recruit Armor and Helmet and they were calling me Profligate which is how they address people who aren't Legion members. So my costume's not working. This has to be a bug I think.

EDIT^3: Oh wait! Is it because my character's a woman? O_O

 

[Mameluk]

EDIT: Decided instead of going to Nelson I would go to another Legionnaire Outpost so I went to Techatticup Mines disguised as a Legionnaire and everybody was friendly to me until I entered one area and then all of a sudden they all attacked me. They were calling me "Profligate" though. Does that mean they weren't reacting to my "disguise"? Confused

Was there any chest that had the message "open" in red color?

EDIT^2: Went back to an earlier save before I was "Accepted" by NCR to see if that had anything to do with it. I walked into Nelson disguised in Recruit Armor and Helmet and they were calling me Profligate which is how they address people who aren't Legion members. So my costume's not working. This has to be a bug I think.

It's not, or at least it was supposed to be this way: wearing a faction clothes is like wearing a uniform of opposing army, and no soldier will give up his uniform unless he's dead. Hence their reaction - they might not be thinking you took it from a corpse, but you had to get it... somehow. But this thinking is poorly executed, since you eventually get a key to one of the factions' safehouses where you can find their armors. It's not fun to waltz into the Fort in your shiny Centurion armor when the first thing you hear is "Degenerates like you belong on the cross".

 

[FearMonkey]

Was there any chest that had the message "open" in red color?

I didn't try opening anything while I was in there. I just walked around.

===

Okay, so now I figured I'd finish the "Booted" sidequest. I went in there with Recruit Armor and they fired on me immediately.

And then, on a lark, I decided to quit and reload. And this time they didn't fire at me in Recruit Armor and I was walking around and such.

So maybe it was the reboot that fixed it. I haven't gone back to Nelson yet to see if it still happens or not.