GTA V
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Joelzania said:
Walpknut said:
God forbid having variety in a game. Or a new protagonist, instead of Hardened Male Badass #11, #12 and #13.
As for the token part, how about, um, not making them token characters?
Knight Captain Kerr
Still Mildly Glowing
The game looks great so far.
Having three player charactera and all of them male does disappoint me. It is about time GTA has a female player character.
Having three player charactera and all of them male does disappoint me. It is about time GTA has a female player character.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Tagaziel said:
How about just not worrying about the gender of the character and instead just making a character they feel fits with whatever they are writing?
Joelzania
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Tagaziel said:
There's variety and then there's caring what skin your character goes about in killing things. Variety to me would mean more gameplay variety, not characters. In fact, the greatest variety to me would me a shit ton of radio stations and adverts. The best part of GTA is listening to the adverts.
Joelzania said:
That's a but of a reductionist attitude, for a series that has for the last handful of releases been strongly story-driven. The personality of the main character matters a ton, and he/she has to be well-written and voice acted. Story is massively important to these titles, it was everything to GTA IV. Maybe you just skip through the cutscenes, but not all of us do, so it's not just "skin", it's part of the experience.
One of GTA's strengths since GTA 3 has been the story, and those games have gotten ever more story-driven. I actually think GTA IV may have gone a bit overboard there, but the main character is central to the GTA games.
What's interesting here is that GTA has been relatively diverse in the type of characters they've had so far. III's main character didn't have much (any?) personality and was mostly just a blank slate. But Vice City presented you with, essentially, Scarface. San Andreas gave you a hood gang member who was mostly concerned with his gang and family, but is at times conflicted. IV presented the most complex character, an immigrant just trying to make some money and flee from his traumatic past.
These are all male tough guys in general, but they're also pretty different in personality. They're not just maniacal serial killers. In fact, none of them are that. They all have some reasons and motivations, and none of them just go on random killing sprees.
A female main character could round out that group pretty nicely, and could be very interesting. How would a woman function in a male-dominated crime world? How would she advance? What are the obstacles specific to women she'd encounter? You can build a fascinating story there.
You could also take a lot of different angles. The hood rat who's just a soldier in a gang (see Snoop on The Wire, for instance). The female head of the family, manipulating everyone to keep the strings (a stereotype present in almost every crime movie). The girlfriend of a low-level killed or jailed gangster who takes over his activities. The rich girl who's rebelling against her upbringing. A former soldier forced into crime to take care of herself (or her family). Or just a woman who's pretty good at being a criminal.
There are tons of angles you can explore here, and really, there's no good reason not to try this out some time.
Except, of course, business reasons.
What's interesting here is that GTA has been relatively diverse in the type of characters they've had so far. III's main character didn't have much (any?) personality and was mostly just a blank slate. But Vice City presented you with, essentially, Scarface. San Andreas gave you a hood gang member who was mostly concerned with his gang and family, but is at times conflicted. IV presented the most complex character, an immigrant just trying to make some money and flee from his traumatic past.
These are all male tough guys in general, but they're also pretty different in personality. They're not just maniacal serial killers. In fact, none of them are that. They all have some reasons and motivations, and none of them just go on random killing sprees.
A female main character could round out that group pretty nicely, and could be very interesting. How would a woman function in a male-dominated crime world? How would she advance? What are the obstacles specific to women she'd encounter? You can build a fascinating story there.
You could also take a lot of different angles. The hood rat who's just a soldier in a gang (see Snoop on The Wire, for instance). The female head of the family, manipulating everyone to keep the strings (a stereotype present in almost every crime movie). The girlfriend of a low-level killed or jailed gangster who takes over his activities. The rich girl who's rebelling against her upbringing. A former soldier forced into crime to take care of herself (or her family). Or just a woman who's pretty good at being a criminal.
There are tons of angles you can explore here, and really, there's no good reason not to try this out some time.
Except, of course, business reasons.
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
The nonsensical complaints about lack of female GTA leads reminds me of a ridiculous criticism I had when San Andreas first came out. Back then, pop culture in general was being more and more "affirmative action", and I saw a black lead in GTA as just another token attempt at inclusiveness, and not at making a magnificent game with a compelling story and cast. Of course, I was up my own ass with wrongness. When I visited my local Game Crazy (I miss those joints) and asked about the latest titles to help me decide on my next purchase, I vocalized my discontent about the game focusing on "black people and 'gangstas'", and everybody behind the counter, as well as my best friend standing beside me, took a step back with wide eyes, as if I'd said the most racist comment they'd ever heard. Looking back, I realize the idea was absurd to begin with. If it was any other game, it MIGHT have been a grab for attention, or a halfhearted attempt at looking PC. But it was Rockstar, it was GTA, and on top of that, it was what most fans continue to call the BEST of GTA, ever since (although I'd care to disagree, citing IV as the series' best, IMOPO).
Complaining right now about GTA's lack of a female lead is just as silly as my complaints about "adding in black people". It's ill-founded, and pretentious. Good writing, great characterization, and superb storytelling is not bound by gender, creed, or race. Those things are superficial, and if you care about all that, you're ignoring what really matters. That's not to say there aren't any good reasons TO have a female lead, but just because there isn't presently one doesn't mean something wrong with the developers, or with the game. If they wanna do something, let them do it. Criticize it if it's actually bad, not if they didn't do something you wanted them to.
Complaining right now about GTA's lack of a female lead is just as silly as my complaints about "adding in black people". It's ill-founded, and pretentious. Good writing, great characterization, and superb storytelling is not bound by gender, creed, or race. Those things are superficial, and if you care about all that, you're ignoring what really matters. That's not to say there aren't any good reasons TO have a female lead, but just because there isn't presently one doesn't mean something wrong with the developers, or with the game. If they wanna do something, let them do it. Criticize it if it's actually bad, not if they didn't do something you wanted them to.
Joelzania
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Brother None said:
I guess I'm just happy to have another game. What I enjoyed the most in GTA 4 was the immersion you can get from walking down the street say. And also, I don't skip cutscenes, but I wouldn't see why anyone would be inherently bothered at why there were no women playable in the game. Does it really bother you at the end of the day? Surely there's more to GTA for you then just that.
Sander said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you on Claude, GTA 3's protagonist. The idea that he's silently murdering so many people really freaks me out..
TheGM
The voice of reason
Sander said:
You named a bunch of examples and none of them sound fun.
Who the fuck wants to be a Hood Rat? Female Gang Solider? Every Female Gang Solider I've ever ran across was locked into the position of look out/sperm dumpster. Nothing says fun like blowing 8 guys at a party for rent money or because you're playing a hood rat.
The female head of the family, manipulating everyone to keep the strings. Because playing as a manipulative middle-aged matriarch sounds like such a selling point. Nothing says fun and engaging like Menopause. Just imagine running from the police while your sagging tits flop about and then you have to spend the next in game week soaking your feet in hot water. Engrossing.
The girlfriend of a low-level killed or jailed gangster who takes over his activities. *yawn*
The rich girl who's rebelling against her upbringing. Playing as a spoiled cunt no matter the gender isn't fun other than killing the fuck over and over.
A former soldier forced into crime to take care of herself (or her family). That is just Victor Vance from GTA
ice City stories with a Vagina.Or just a woman who's pretty good at being a criminal. Like some kind of upstart hotshot car thief who in quest in for money and respect in her male dominated world gets pulled into something bigger then herself and has to fight for survival. once she figures out how to release the E-brake.
Maybe you could play as Danica Patrick, who learned to fistfight in the NASCAR paddock. After losing her nationwide contract and her looks she turns to crime to sustain her vagisil addiction. As Nico Bellics distant relative she can also start receiving phone calls from Roman every five minutes to go on immersive non-missions to stay friends with him.
It's all in the execution. Quite frankly, you're nitpicking and ridiculing stereotypes (which, because they're stereotypes, are easily ridiculed). You can do the same for the stereotypes in existing GTA games. In fact, let's do that.TheGM said:
Claude: Oh you were just released from prison and have to do menial jobs for your crime boss? Totally fun doing bottom of the totem pole bullshit work.
Tommy: Oh seriously, just released from prison again? And you start out at the bottom? Yeah fuck that.
CJ: Oh yeah, a hood soldier. That's fun. They're all poor as shit and dead in a few years, not to mention that they'll never go beyond just living on the streets. Give me a break.
Niko: A fucking ship worker from Eastern Europe visiting his taxi-driving buddy with 0 criminal connections? Oh yeah, because those guys sure are set up for success in New York, right? Enjoy playing shitty minimum wage job: the game, guys.
See?
The point is that there are plenty of established entry-points in fiction for female characters in settings fit for GTA. Good writers can take those entry-points and develop them into an interesting story. It's not that hard to go through a plausible (for GTA purposes) story-arc that's interesting for each of those archetypes.
And, of course, there's no reason why GTA needs to stick to 'established' models, either. Hell, they even had a strong female character who could function as a main character in the form of Elizabeta Torres.
No, they're very different things. In fact, you were complaining that Rockstar was exploiting a demographic for profit (which duh, they're a company). This complaint reflects not Rockstar, but basically the entire gaming industry, which seems completely incapable of breaking free of a male-dominated paradigm. Except when they produce sex objects as main characters, because that's so much better.SnapSlav said:
It's not that GTA has to be the one to break that tendency. There's just no real good reason why they shouldn't be the one to break it.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Don't put up un-fun stereotypes and I won't destroy them.Sander said:
You can't touch Tommy, even when you are trying to do what I did without the awesome. y-y-you can't do it. he is Scarface without Al Pacino's terrible acting(Yelling =/= acting) stincking up the joint. Also if you are gonna do the thing I did can you at least get the stuff about the characters right? Helps with the reading experience.
When I think of a strong woman, I think of a paranoid woman who locked herself in her apartment. Susan B. Anthony eat your heart out.
People need to recognize in a GTA game you are going to playing as a Major/Master criminal and that implies logic and thinking and I am sure we are all aware that when it comes to the matters of thinking and logic, that the fairer sex isn't built for it like men are
*gets chair shotted*
Trailer 2 is up.
Does a great job characterizing the 3 main characters. The tone seems lighter, quirkier, compared to GTA IV. Looking good, like a lot of fun, but there's not a lot of gameplay in this trailer.
Does a great job characterizing the 3 main characters. The tone seems lighter, quirkier, compared to GTA IV. Looking good, like a lot of fun, but there's not a lot of gameplay in this trailer.
donperkan
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I think it's safe to assume the gameplay is the same. Driving around and running over pedestrians is the core of gta series.
DevilTakeMe
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQEOwEBvC-M&feature=g-u-u[/youtube]
Some insight into the three protagonists - three slightly older guys having to deal with mo' money, mo' problems!
It's true that there isn't much gameplay, but it does look improved a bit from 4, and will definitely be different than what anyone saw in the GTA-3 era.
Some insight into the three protagonists - three slightly older guys having to deal with mo' money, mo' problems!
It's true that there isn't much gameplay, but it does look improved a bit from 4, and will definitely be different than what anyone saw in the GTA-3 era.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Does that black guy have the same voice that Carl Johnson in San Andreas had?
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
"A bit" improved? No, it's not "a bit" improved since IV, technology-wise it's VASTLY improved! Fans took the initial teaser trailer, and tried to replicate it with GTAIV, and the difference was staggering. Apart from being shinier and prettier overall, there's a lot of little things, like more mechanical and/or physics affects (Remember how impressive it was that Niko had to break car windows to get into cars, compared to previous installments? Take that to 11!). Of course, how much of the original trailer was gameplay footage and how much was pre-rendered is speculative, but even in-game cinematics were grounded in the actual game engine, so it's still an impressive showcase of advancements since the last 4 years. It's like HD vs SD; you think the improvement is small, fairly gradual, but once you actually put the two up against each other, you see how VASTLY better one actually is.