Star Wars: Rogue One

BTW, I find it a bit strange that the rebels are intimidated by the existence of the Death Star but sort of casual dismiss its fleets of Star Destroyers.
While those don't destroy a planet with one shot they could still render a planet's surface lifeless with a Base Delta Zero (basically keep shooting until nothing is left standing).

There were a lot more of those than of the Death Star battlestation which took years to build.
 
BTW, I find it a bit strange that the rebels are intimidated by the existence of the Death Star but sort of casual dismiss its fleets of Star Destroyers.
While those don't destroy a planet with one shot they could still render a planet's surface lifeless with a Base Delta Zero (basically keeping shooting until nothing is left standing).

There were a lot more of those than of the Death Star battlestation which took years to build.
Also I don't remember in any movie where the real power of the Star Destroyers is shown... They just sit there and launch some fighters and shoot a few anti-ship batteries. They are massive ships with serious firepower but never show it and just seem to get taken down or disabled by small fighter class ships.
 
Being the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be isn't really a character, it's shit writing. also everybody loves them.....fuck you wookie I've known for 30 years I'm hugging the new bitch because I'm sad.

I saw Rouge One and I can safely say.....it was a movie. liked it more than boring piece of crap TFA. Some say it's a Fan Film. wouldn't know, not really a fan of star wars.

Mary Sue-ness aside, Rey is more likeable than Jyn. Colorful vs flat, accent mc-accent.

Also I don't remember in any movie where the real power of the Star Destroyers is shown... They just sit there and launch some fighters and shoot a few anti-ship batteries. They are massive ships with serious firepower but never show it and just seem to get taken down or disabled by small fighter class ships.

Plot armor for the Rebels; kinda like how Vader's personal 501st battalion of Storm Troopers (supposedly the best of the best) miss every shot they carefully aim.
 
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Some have managed to convince me of certain things such as @Crni Vuk's comment about how it doesn't make sense that
the death star's weakness is too small to believably be intentional
but I personally appreciate the films tone and the presence of moff tarkin and the characters, especially the protagonist, were a bit dull and didn't seem to bond very much but... No movie is without it's flaws and still believe it to be decent overall.
 
like i asked with the last movie (and still didn't watch that one-), i can watch this if i haven't watched any star wars movies?
 
About the exhaust port issue (I wonder how many times that has been discussed on Star Wars forums), I am still of the opinion that it was a design oversight and not an intentional weakness that Rogue One makes it out to be.

It would have been better if they had dropped that particular plot device, and that instead the head scientist guy had secretly been transmitting schematics and designs to that archive without Krennic or the other Imperials knowing about it.

Perhaps the archive would have been some backwater place of medium importance, then when Krennic finds out that a complete set of plans are in one location instead of the bits and pieces distributed around the galaxy he immediately convinced the admirals that a fleet must be send to secure the archive, destroying it if necessary.
 
In the old EU it was certainly just an oversight. The architect, Bevel Lemelisk, was then brutally executed by the Emperor (also cloned and had his mind transfered into the new body. Lemelisk was executed like five times, each time worse than before. When the New Republic captured him and said that they'd execute him for war crimes he was just "Well. Make sure to do it right this time").
 
Hassknecht, which take on the designer of the Death Star do you prefer? Galen and Krennic or Bevel Lemelisk?
I do kind of feel that the whole "cloning and transferring of minds" feels a bit overdone and ridiculous, but I find the story of a "highly moral scientist forced to make a weapon against his will" is a rather overdone story type. It had been done several times in the old Star Wars (first example that comes to mind is Professor Renn Volz and his climatizer/Ion Ring ship which the Empire then used to turn habitable worlds into wastelands)

A friend of mine who at the moment still tries to reconcile the old canon with the new simply see the head scientist guy from Rogue One as just another designer on the team who worked alongside Bevel Lemelisk.
 
I liked Lemelisk. Dark Saber was a crappy novel, but the general idea of the character was good. Lemelisk was a completely amoral person, he only cared about making things, not giving a shit about how many living beings they kill. Compare that to Qwi Xux, who just didn't (want to) know what they were building.
Yeah, the cloning was a bit too much, but it was kinda interesting to see how the Emperor punished people he still needed. Those execution methods were quite inventive. Being submerged in molten copper, for example ("Why copper?" -"It came out of the furnace that day.").
In the end I prefer Lemelisk. Galen was just another "I sacrifice myself for the greater good moral scientist" type of dude. Boring. Lemelisk was a professional giver of no shits whatsoever.
 
Now we know what kind of role model you prefer! Being a scientist and all :P.
Hassknecht would develop the ultimate death star. For whom? Who cares! He's not pulling the trigger.
 
Just going to say...I...I really don't like anything Starwars, other than the original 3 films...

7 had potential, but the characterisation was fuckign appaling, Rogue One to me is just convenient backstory being shown to the viewers.

I kinda prefer stuff like 'bothans died trying to give us this information' rather than a modern CGI-fest of mediocrity.
 
I'm torn in the Bevel Lemisk vs. Galen Erso argument.

Nazi Mad Scientists are a pulp tradition which Star Wars draws from and we should totally have people like the Red Skull and Armin Zola doing evil with SCIENCE! Kevin J. Anderson's version of Bevel Lemisk seems a little too mild versus the kind of cackling guys I would have preferred. Ironically, Krennic seems closer to the kind of bad guy I like even though hes not the inventor but their supervisor.

Galen Erso isn't very Pulpy but nicely reflects the real life scientists and saboteurs which did their best to impede the Third Reich with sabotage. That's a level of real life history which Star Wars drawing from fits their kind of storytelling universe.

I will say that I much-much-much prefer Krennic to Admiral Daala. Krennic was still grossly incompetent but at least I think he could do more than massacre some unarmed colonies.
 
Rogue One has problems which, like TFA, come out the more you watch it and as more time grows between watching it. However, it's a good movie, better than TFA in my opinion. But it's not a great movie. Spoilers ahead, of course.

The Music is subpar because the composer had a month and a half to write it. Of these, though, I like the soft tune of Star Dust.

There's weird elements to 'connect' the movie to the series, as well. Darth Vader was mishandled here for the most part. We did not need to see him humanized and definitely did not need to see him weak, and we definitely did not need to see that he - no, it was better to never make - that he has a damn tower of EVILLLLLLLL on *Mustafar*. We did not need to see him taking a bath, surrounded by guards, and even has some dude he's so trustworthy of to come in while he's bathing who looks like a sith. Hell, we didn't need the force choke. We just needed a terrible dragon, who should had hung around the Imperials, mow down rebels, and that's it. The Doctor and his buddy from the Cantina scene in IV comes up - he must had left quickly, because the city they're in is destroyed a few hours later at most.

The mood was okay. Dark movies are hard to pull off, but Rogue One sort of does it. Saw should had been - and I think he was - a much more greater character. Scenes from the trailer don't make it to the movie, but the movie still works, I just wonder how it would had been if the more morally ambigous, jaded Saw stuck around a bit more. Even just something for Jyn to lament about to Saw, hammering the point down that these guys are considered extremists by the already tense Rebellion; but all we got was the rough handling of a defector, mind-torture by a weird alien, an ambush in the crowded street, and some close 'friendly fire' - these guys aren't the Al Nursa of Star Wars, they're more of the Mujadeen, while the Rebels themselves are some sort of mix of WW2 Partisans, but without the ideological differences, just strategic-tactical impressions. Trust me, it could had been a lot more dark, such as the shooting of prisoners, impressment or abuse of collaborators and loyalists, more wanton destruction without moving civs out of the danger, etc, etc. Even just having the cliche of the 'hero saving the crying baby' could had been cut short by the kid being hit by a bolt and just collapsing in front of Jyn, with the ambiguity of just WHO fired the shot.

The Empire is done a bit well. The infighting, the utter pulling of the rug of each other's feet, the fighting between Tarkin and Krennic - one aspect of Nazism was how the Fuhrer would encourage such infighting, leading to inefficency and problems all due to a warped sense of social darwinism and competition; and here it shows. Tarkin kills thousands of Imperials just to remove the competition, and that's expected; since the Empire is supposed to be this hash of the worst authoritarian, fascist regimes we've had in addition to the Roman parallels. Tip: Fascism, even on paper, does require an outlet for the drive of the state, and at best it could be a arms or technological race; but more often than not it descends into scapegoating, militarism, and all out continous warfare. Can that work? Who knows, but so far we've come to the conclusion that it won't - eventually, someone will be too big and too efficent to topple; there's always a bigger fish, and even just fighting one war is a strain on any nation; much less continious, constant war. And then add infighting and the inefficent economies these regimes find themselves inheriting and making, collapse comes.

The Characters themselves - there might have been too many? They felt undercook. We literally are following these people for a day or two. Not that we can't have fleshed out characters by that time, friendships can be made in hours; but some came out far more well than others. Blaze and Chirruc; K2SO, Jyn and Cassian, Bodhi... I can understand their motives, but the level of connection is weak, but sufficent enough for me to care. Bodhi loved his boss, enough to defect for him, enough to get the word out of this terrible machine the Empire was making. Cassian fighting the long fight; but because of Jyn, starts to mellow out just a bit. Jyn, who just wants to live, but comes to terms that the Empire has crossed a line. Blaze and Chirruc, old buddies of the old ways, who just saw not just their home destroyed but their religion to the Empire, K2S0; who, um, well, he was a funny droid, but he keeps saying 'Because Cassian told me to', but by the end he does respect Jyn and the others because of the constant hardships and struggles they endure. Tarkin and Krennic are literally two snapping dogs around the feet of the Emperor, but we already know Tarkin wins, and he wins just too easily, Krennic is the one who even gets his clothes dirty to defend his office. Galen Erso is the stereotypical good-scientist, bad employer; but he gives a sort of a good reason which fits star wars - "If I didn't do it, someone else would had done it, and they wouldn't had given others a chance to take it down." And he loves his daughter. His wife is the same, and nearly kills Krennic in the beginning, but she, well, dies early on, more of something for Jyn to put in her own portfolio. The Valiant admiral who strikes for the rebellion, damn the politics, the general who wants the job done, the Marshal who wants to do something but is constrained by politics and the bigger picture but doesn't mind if her underlings do something. And Organa, who should have a higher post in the pecking order but just hangs around, doing his best to keep the rebellion alive.

I can see where they were going with the characters, but even a few more lines, a look, a pause could had added a bit more to them. I felt some pangs when they mostly kicked the bucket, even Bodhi - in fact, Bodhi does add a lot with his lines and his eyes; his terror when being jostled around, his urge to help, and then at the end when he does his part and gets a grenade for it. Bodhi worked. K2SO worked on the comic side. There was apparently a thing between Cassian and Jyn, but they both felt the same to me, they have an obligatory fight, suffer, and then make up, but I don't know. Came as a bit too rushed?

On the eye candy side, this movie doesn't disappoint, especially the battle over Scarrif. That was edge-of-the-seat thrilling. The locations feel real, save the damn tower of evil. The bustling, seedy streets of Jedha. The scrambled mess which is Yavin IV. The frantic engineers and techies of the Empire on Scarrif. Stuff like that. It's all in the little details and things, to make the world feel alive.

Random musing: The Death Star should had destroyed a planet just to confirm that it works, but maybe that would had been just too much for us to take in, especially since the only other real place it can blow up that we would care about as an audience is Scarrif.

I liked it. But from a critic standpoint, it'll be a 6/10, while personally I like it a lot, 9/10. I hope the writing at least gets a little better for the next dozen movies Disney is going to crank out.
 
The issue with Darth Vader, and I like his character just as much as the next guy, is that he was never supposed to be this ultimate Sith Lord and right hand of the emperor. It simply happend that he was pushed in to that role with the second and third movie. When you think about it, Darth Vader simply appeared like a rather generic bad guy-villain that did the dirty jobs for the empire. Just like a high ranking no-name-nazi-waffen-ss officer of the German army in a cliche WW2 movie if you want so who's only there to serve as obstacle for the hero.
 
The issue with Darth Vader, and I like his character just as much as the next guy, is that he was never supposed to be this ultimate Sith Lord and right hand of the emperor. It simply happend that he was pushed in to that role with the second and third movie. When you think about it, Darth Vader simply appeared like a rather generic bad guy-villain that did the dirty jobs for the empire. Just like a high ranking no-name-nazi-waffen-ss officer of the German army in a cliche WW2 movie if you want so who's only there to serve as obstacle for the hero.

Eh, that was sort of out the window by Empire Strikes Back and even in A New Hope, you had him causally strangling Generals and the only guy who can get anything done in the Empire. In A New Hope alone:

* He tracks down Princess Leia
* Kills Obi-Wan Kenobi
* Finds the Rebel's hidden fortress
* Personally recognizes the Rebels are a threat and takes his own guys out to reinforce the TIE Fighter defenders.

Even when he defers to Moff Tarkin, it seems more out of respect than because Tarkin can order it.
 
Eh, that was sort of out the window by Empire Strikes Back and even in A New Hope, you had him causally strangling Generals and the only guy who can get anything done in the Empire. In A New Hope alone:

* He tracks down Princess Leia
* Kills Obi-Wan Kenobi
* Finds the Rebel's hidden fortress
* Personally recognizes the Rebels are a threat and takes his own guys out to reinforce the TIE Fighter defenders.

Even when he defers to Moff Tarkin, it seems more out of respect than because Tarkin can order it.

I think the Clone Wars animated series is canon, but it's established there that Anakin and Tarkin had a pretty good relationship when they were serving the Republic. Both were more militaristic in how they handled situations. So, yeah the respect bit is spot on.
 
I think the Clone Wars animated series is canon, but it's established there that Anakin and Tarkin had a pretty good relationship when they were serving the Republic. Both were more militaristic in how they handled situations. So, yeah the respect bit is spot on.

A better reviewer than me also stated that a good half of Palpatine's menace is due to the fact Vader is so differential and subordinate to him.

But yes, Tarkin having Vader's respect increases Tarkin's villain cred the way we're shown, not told Vader's.
 
Eh, that was sort of out the window by Empire Strikes Back and even in A New Hope, you had him causally strangling Generals and the only guy who can get anything done in the Empire. In A New Hope alone:

* He tracks down Princess Leia
* Kills Obi-Wan Kenobi
* Finds the Rebel's hidden fortress
* Personally recognizes the Rebels are a threat and takes his own guys out to reinforce the TIE Fighter defenders.

Even when he defers to Moff Tarkin, it seems more out of respect than because Tarkin can order it.
But Vader never striked me as this character, that was supposed to have this incredible huge and long back story. That is, of course if we ONLY(!) look at New Hope, which was the first of all the Star Wars movies, and here he simply seems to be like just as you say, to be this character that gets shit done. You need someone to do the dirty work? Get Vader. I mean we will never know that part anyway, unless you're best buddies with Lucas who told you exactly what he wanted to do some 40 years ago.
 
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