Th4if no more.

Crni Vuk said:
Hey, I love the game. No need to argue with me. I am well aware about the stuff you mentioned. And I have not placed the blame here on anyone, be it Square Enix or Ubisoft.

Doesnt change the fact that the boss fights have been garbage.

Or that that I refuse to see content from "DLC"s as part of the game to say that. Wow! I saw Tracer Tong for 5 sec. in the main game jumping on a boat! Everett is in the DLC! Another wow! So I just have to buy that DLC to get him in my game ...

On the other side maybe Bob page was in the game, but it sure was not really important, because I dont remember it really. It was just the intro I think - checked it, yeah pretty much. So you see him for a couple of seconds and that was it ...

After all, Deus Ex HR, has very little to do with Deus Ex 1 as far as the story goes, it has a lot of great qualities which makes it an great game for it self and a game where I think even keeps some of the spirt from Deus Ex, but its not a good prequel, because it yeah, does not really connect with the story of Deus Ex 1 in any way. Except that they throw names like Versa Life around to remind you that this is supposed to play in the World of Deus Ex. As said it is an great game, without any doubts, but there have been cases where I had to remind my self that this was supposed to play before Deus Ex 1. I mean it would have been nice to actually explore the history of characters like J.C. and Paul Denton, the most important characters of Deus Ex 1. I mean imagine the character of DE:HR would had to actually protect them in some mission, but losing them in the end to MJ12, how awesome would that have been. Not just reading about it those characters but actually being directly inside the story and taking part here! A lot of missed potential and oportunities here.
Click to expand...

Meh, a game must be able to stand on its own. I much prefer that they made HR it own story, with its own characters, than just endless fanservice to set Deus Ex up (Lord knows there already was lots of this if you knew where to look). And frankly, I prefered Malik, Pritchard and Sarif to pretty much any character in Deus Ex.

Bob Page was actually pretty damn important, as he's the bloke who sets the whole plot in motion. He's also in the all-important post-credit sequence, the one that ties together HR and Deus Ex 1 very neatly. I think HR was what prequels should be; setup the story of the ''main'' installment, but not depend on it. As I said, it must absolutely stand on its own.
 
Ilosar said:
He's also in the all-important post-credit sequence, the one that ties together HR and Deus Ex 1 very neatly. I think HR was what prequels should be; setup the story of the ''main'' installment, but not depend on it. As I said, it must absolutely stand on its own.
Click to expand...

I wonder what will be the story of "HR2" though (since the ending of DX:HR ties directly into the original) and any games after that really. They can't keep releasing games placed before Deus Ex 1 and making them after it will confuse all the people that started the series with Human revolution. Personally I think they should do a semi remake of DX1, keeping the story in broad strokes but changing the main character.
 
Ilosar said:
Crni Vuk said:
Hey, I love the game. No need to argue with me. I am well aware about the stuff you mentioned. And I have not placed the blame here on anyone, be it Square Enix or Ubisoft.

Doesnt change the fact that the boss fights have been garbage.

Or that that I refuse to see content from "DLC"s as part of the game to say that. Wow! I saw Tracer Tong for 5 sec. in the main game jumping on a boat! Everett is in the DLC! Another wow! So I just have to buy that DLC to get him in my game ...

On the other side maybe Bob page was in the game, but it sure was not really important, because I dont remember it really. It was just the intro I think - checked it, yeah pretty much. So you see him for a couple of seconds and that was it ...

After all, Deus Ex HR, has very little to do with Deus Ex 1 as far as the story goes, it has a lot of great qualities which makes it an great game for it self and a game where I think even keeps some of the spirt from Deus Ex, but its not a good prequel, because it yeah, does not really connect with the story of Deus Ex 1 in any way. Except that they throw names like Versa Life around to remind you that this is supposed to play in the World of Deus Ex. As said it is an great game, without any doubts, but there have been cases where I had to remind my self that this was supposed to play before Deus Ex 1. I mean it would have been nice to actually explore the history of characters like J.C. and Paul Denton, the most important characters of Deus Ex 1. I mean imagine the character of DE:HR would had to actually protect them in some mission, but losing them in the end to MJ12, how awesome would that have been. Not just reading about it those characters but actually being directly inside the story and taking part here! A lot of missed potential and oportunities here.
Click to expand...

Meh, a game must be able to stand on its own. I much prefer that they made HR it own story, with its own characters, than just endless fanservice to set Deus Ex up (Lord knows there already was lots of this if you knew where to look). And frankly, I prefered Malik, Pritchard and Sarif to pretty much any character in Deus Ex.

Bob Page was actually pretty damn important, as he's the bloke who sets the whole plot in motion. He's also in the all-important post-credit sequence, the one that ties together HR and Deus Ex 1 very neatly. I think HR was what prequels should be; setup the story of the ''main'' installment, but not depend on it. As I said, it must absolutely stand on its own.
Click to expand...
eh?

A HR was a lot. Good. Awesome. But not a prequel really.

The ties between DE1 and DE HR are so small, that they could be also not there.

It doesnt matter how important Bob Page is. He doesnt play any role in DE HR. As said. They throw names around to remember you "Oh wait, this is supposed to be a Prequel!"

Lets say you play a Sequel, dont you expect some continuity and coherence? I would say the same at least should be true for a Prequel so it should do more then just show one of the lead figures for 5 sec.

Of course DE HR should tell its "own" story, Adam is the main character and HR is doing an excelent job here. But as I said, as a Prequel its doing an awfull job as it does not create really any ties between HR and DE1.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
I wonder what will be the story of "HR2" though (since the ending of DX:HR ties directly into the original) and any games after that really. They can't keep releasing games placed before Deus Ex 1 and making them after it will confuse all the people that started the series with Human revolution. Personally I think they should do a semi remake of DX1, keeping the story in broad strokes but changing the main character.
Click to expand...
I dont see that as a problem really. I mean the ending is so ambiguous that pretty much all of them could lead to DE1. Even if Adam [spoiler:0316e9800a]killed everyone and himself in the end[/spoiler:0316e9800a]
There is still a lot of time between HR and DE1, around 20 years I think. So plenty of room for another prequel of some sort.
 
http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/255-thief-feature-a-crime-of-passion/

Very first line of the article: "We won’t be able to make everybody happy,” says the lead level designer.

We are off to a good start.

Also this:

http://sneakybastards.net/theobserver/thief-hands-on/

Tl;dr versions to save you time: jumping and rope arrows are context-sensitive. Why? The ability of jumping up and down like a fool and falling down despite being a master thief "broke immersion". as for the latter...Oh, my god...

“If I give you the possibility to shoot the rope arrow everywhere, I will have to cut something. I will have to reduce our intention for the narrative."

I can't facepalm hard enough. Another beloved IP destroyed.

But don't worry! Batman vision, I mean...Instict mode, I mean...Dark Vision, I mean...Focus mode can be disabled and the game is totally not designed around it and it will totally feel like the old games. Like Purist mode in Hitman and 1999 mode in Bioshock Infinite.
 
god damn buzzwords.

"you cant make everyone happy"

you dont have. Just the fans. And yes, that is possible.

"engine limitations prevented it"

riiiight. Good artists make the tools. Bad artists blame their tools.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
“If I give you the possibility to shoot the rope arrow everywhere, I will have to cut something. I will have to reduce our intention for the narrative."
Click to expand...

Fuck their stupid narrative. In older games narrative didn't cripple gameplay. It was a sound design. Now you gotta have the cutscenes in key points of a level for emotional development(tm), so player has to be put in a cage.
 
or they could have simply done it like the "old" games did it and actually only allow the rope to work on ... wood. Dont want the player to use the rope arrow? well dont use any surfaces where the arrow could get stuck!
 
So, why is it that most modern game developers can't comprehend that games are not like movies so they shouldn't be taken back by the elements that make a movie?
 
What's hilarious is that companies complain that they lose a ton money because games are traded in within a week...and then make short, linear, cinematic, shallow games that are worth only one playthrough...
 
It all started when the consoles made the gaming mainstream, and games became movies with interactive elements.

Case in point: Max Payne 2 vs Max Payne 3.
 
Before 3d came into power, consoles were about pixelated abstractions and were seen as a niche for nerds and possibly children.

As the userbase expanded, game companies started catering to their new dudebro overlords.
 
Oh, another anti console person that likes to feel superior.

No need to argue further on that.
 
shihonage said:
Before 3d came into power, consoles were about pixelated abstractions and were seen as a niche for nerds and possibly children.

As the userbase expanded, game companies started catering to their new dudebro overlords.
Click to expand...
actually the PC and gaming in general was seen as something for Nerds and as a niche hobby. But that was back in the early 90s. Already back then the console was for many a toy for children though, or at least it was seen as that by the "public". But both, the console and the PC had actually more, a lot more games with what I would call adult topics then just "child" themes. But the crude visuals back then made it hard for someone who was not used with gaming to actually tell if a game was more "serious", like with killing and a mature story, or if it was just a "fun" game for kidz.

I dont think that you can blame the consoles for changes though, it isnt like PC developers are really "forced" to follow everything here. Yes, there is in some cases presure, but I dont think that we can simply blame it on the console or even their consumers. After all, the people that actually started for example with the Playstation, N64 or later with X-Box are yeah, adults, already back then the typical gamer was either a teenager or someone in his early 20s. Many of those people are now in their 30s. Not really the kind of demographic that enjoys Barbies new Home or something like that.

No. The problem, the "real" problem is, that gaming as market has matured, it has grown to unbelievable size, not yet where movie buisness is, but it is a multi billion dollar buisness after all.

But since games are still a relatively new form of entertainment they still have not all the "concepts" of movies yet, take the relationship between the big studios and independed game developers. Those exist as well in the movie buisness, but there you can very often see that the big studios have some of them working for them, which also release movies with the creativity and freedom they want and need. This would be very needed for games as well.

But I think the main reason why people like to blame the console is because the console got a lot of marketing. It is much easier to sell it to the "family" while the PC still has the stigma of beeing a toy for "nerds" and not to mention the other ... negative aspects, porn, piracy etc. Its not like piracy doesnt exist on the console, but it is much easier to sell it to the people as "clean" product. I mean try to sell the over protective mom that the PC is a perfect "toy" for her little Timmy when she saw a couple of days ago that stupid report which blamed Anonymus for hacking something again, or Stuff about Wiki leaks. You dont see the Console causing the same echo in the media. Of course that has nothing to do with games at all, nor is it very likely that our little Timmy here will be the next Wikileaks member, but the PC always had this little immage problem.

So guys, dont blame the consoles for stupid publishers and developers which bow to them. I know its a bit yeah ... simple, but you know what I mean.
 
This is what happens when you don't write a story that can withstand a little prodding by the players.

"Now here is where Garret gets trapped by guards and locked in the dungeon."

"What if the player just uses a rope arrow to climb out a window before the trap?"

"NO NO NO, THE STORY ONLY WORKS IF GARRET HAS TO START ALL OVER FROM HIS ROOTS AS A THIEF AND HE NEEDS TO BE HUMBLED BY DOING SOMETHING STUPID FIRST!"

It's roller coaster writing.

It works for some games, but open-world games not so much.
 
I remember in FEAR I walked into a cutscene where some guy knocks the hero unconscious with a wooden board.

The only problem is, I was aiming at the board as it was coming, and if it wasn't for the hardcoded cutscene, I would've shot his arm off.

Suddenly in a game focused around player timing skill, the character jarringly overrides player skill and goes into "doofus mode" for another cutscene.

Crysis 2 did this a lot, you get "knocked out" by stupid things like 6 times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top