Will we ever get to join the Enclave? Or otherwise explore their organization?

[Brivoo]

I'm just pointing out that civilisations like Caesar's Legion have, depressingly, worked over and over again. Diseases like cholera and dysentery have ultimately had very little impact on some of the biggest empires in the world. I'm not saying Caesar's Legion is the best option for the Mojave, but it is a viable one.

Civilizations like Caesar's have worked in their own time period. They weren't necessarily at the technological forefront of their era (though a lot of them were), but they were always innovators in one way or another.

Caesar is a tactical and strategic genius; if left alone, almost all Legion operations go according to his plans and the simple fact that he's managed to become a considerable and even terrifying threat to both the NCR and House (both of which are considerably better equipped than he) speaks volumes about his cunning. If he had been a military leader and nothing else, like the Legion's General, but unfortunately he isn't. He's the leader of an entire civilization, and the moment it stops sustaining itself on conquest it will perish unless he learns to adapt and use technology.

Though true that a lot of folks commend the Legion for the safety of its roads, I'd take it with a grain of salt. His entire nation is focused on the war effort as of New Vegas and has been for its entire existence; dissent is unlikely to develop when absolutely everyone is involved in the process.


As for the actual topic, I don't think the Enclave should come back as an actual major faction, but remnants of some sort would be fun, not entirely dissimilar to the Yangtze memorial group. Say you find a group of scientists hiding out in an isolated area, trying to survive and extremely paranoid of outsiders; as you explore, one of them asks you to go look for his grandfather's corpse and retrieve a sentimental item in a dangerous area. You arrive to find a vertibird wreck from what looks like ages ago; you retrieve the locket and take it back to the man, who thanks you and explains that his grandfather died fleeing from persecution like a lot of his faction's people.

Keep it vague but implied, essentially.

 

[TomJ]

As for the actual topic, I don't think the Enclave should come back as an actual major faction, but remnants of some sort would be fun, not entirely dissimilar to the Yangtze memorial group. Say you find a group of scientists hiding out in an isolated area, trying to survive and extremely paranoid of outsiders; as you explore, one of them asks you to go look for his grandfather's corpse and retrieve a sentimental item in a dangerous area. You arrive to find a vertibird wreck from what looks like ages ago; you retrieve the locket and take it back to the man, who thanks you and explains that his grandfather died fleeing from persecution like a lot of his faction's people.

Keep it vague but implied, essentially.

Subtlety works depending on the location. If it's Oregon and near the NCR, I would expect a more subtle plot like that. Also assuming literally anybody but Bethesda writes the story. But the Enclave was a powerful faction. The Oil Rig was basically a city. And if they have access to a facility like Raven Rock, it's safe to assume that the military had other bunkers that the Enclave could crawl into. I've also been of the position that there were people in Raven Rock before Autumn Senior and company rolled in in the 2240s. A base that big is going to need someone to maintain it. And you don't see more than security bots running around.

That being said, I wouldn't mind a one of those aforementioned bunkers being filled with military survivors and they go on to do something. They'd have a similar vibe to the Enclave, but not be the Enclave directly. They also wouldn't likely be as genocidal if they don't communicate much with the proper Enclave. But still, they requires writing on a level that Bethesda obviously doesn't see any reward in. The Institute storyline was one of the best in Fallout 4, but its still anorexic compared to Fallout 3's main story.

 

[Draitex]

I love the Enclave, And in a RP i am apart of i play the Enclave faction, and the way i made them seem viable was that after being beaten two times, they no longer care about genocide F.E.V etc, My leader stated that he was sick of their previous incompetent leaders.


and that mutants are sterile, so they will eventually die out, and after years inside the wasteland, even the Enclave have become irriated, so no longer would the Genocide be a viable solution.

what Enclave instead focused on was improving tradelines, infrastructure and technology.

I figured, since the Enclave and NCR are actually quite alike in terms of their love for ''old world america'' The Enclave could cooperate with NCR, simply put The NCR is the commanders, Enclave works more or less like advisors, with an elite army and superiour tech, which is given to NCR aswell, to further the Enclave inside of NCR.

If they bring back Enclave, I'd love for them to be a part of NCR.

 

[Izak]

Dude, the NCR and Enclave, well what's left of the Enclave, are at war. Arcade even gets tried as a war criminal if the NCR catch him at the end of New Vegas.

 

[Draitex]

Dude, the NCR and Enclave, well what's left of the Enclave, are at war. Arcade even gets tried as a war criminal if the NCR catch him at the end of New Vegas.

I am aware, but I think it makes sense, their ideals are fairly common after all, in terms of America.

I am simply suggesting they somehow get a treaty, and help rebuild America closer to the old world image. ( i think it makes sense, but that's me) (It could be an uneasy alliance too ofcourse, but i never understood why NCR and Enclave were at war)

 

[R.Graves]

I am aware, but I think it makes sense, their ideals are fairly common after all, in terms of America.

I am simply suggesting they somehow get a treaty, and help rebuild America closer to the old world image. ( i think it makes sense, but that's me) (It could be an uneasy alliance too ofcourse, but i never understood why NCR and Enclave were at war)

Because of some space nazi reasoning as everyone in NCR are mutants

 

[Brivoo]

I am aware, but I think it makes sense, their ideals are fairly common after all, in terms of America.

I am simply suggesting they somehow get a treaty, and help rebuild America closer to the old world image. ( i think it makes sense, but that's me) (It could be an uneasy alliance too ofcourse, but i never understood why NCR and Enclave were at war)

The Enclave were too entrenched in their belief of superiority to cooperate with any 'mutants', and even if they chose to now the NCR basically views them as the ultimate evil (hence why Navarro survivors are persecuted). A sordid history is the easiest way to make enemies stay enemies.

You also keep saying that the Enclave and NCR have common ideals, when really they only have a similar system of government; even then, they're not identical. The Enclave as it was believed that they and whomever was left in the Vaults were the only 'pure' humans worthy of inheriting the Earth, whilst the NCR is built (or at least claims to be) on the assertion that every individual is equal, be they human, ghoul or super mutant. An Enclave that still believes in its goals would never agree to work with them.

As for why they were at war, the Enclave slaughtered a bunch of people and basically tried to wipe everyone out everyone on the mainland. The NCR took offence to this, the oversensitive prissies, and decided to take no chances with the Navarro survivors. The BoS joined in the conflict, and this one-sided slaughter came to be known as the NCR-Enclave War.

It's interesting to note that, despite it being their HQ, the Enclave did not die at the Oil Rig; the attack on Camp Navarro as described above occurred years after the end of Fallout 2. We don't know how powerful the survivors were, but considering that Autumn had fled East with most of the armed forces, one could give an educated guess of 'not very'.

The NCR didn't just kick an enemy who'd already admitted defeat; they massacred what was presumably almost exclusively civilians.

 

[Draitex]

Because of some space nazi reasoning as everyone in NCR are mutants

But that was what i meant, now that the Enclave have been away from the oil rig and not as isolated, (i imagine) they could not possibly kill off with FEV since that would kill them too after being irriated for atleast one generation (my RP takes place 30 years from NV for example)

The Enclave were too entrenched in their belief of superiority to cooperate with any 'mutants', and even if they chose to now the NCR basically views them as the ultimate evil (hence why Navarro survivors are persecuted). A sordid history is the easiest way to make enemies stay enemies.

You also keep saying that the Enclave and NCR have common ideals, when really they only have a similar system of government; even then, they're not identical. The Enclave as it was believed that they and whomever was left in the Vaults were the only 'pure' humans worthy of inheriting the Earth, whilst the NCR is built (or at least claims to be) on the assertion that every individual is equal, be they human, ghoul or super mutant. An Enclave that still believes in its goals would never agree to work with them.

As for why they were at war, the Enclave slaughtered a bunch of people and basically tried to wipe everyone out everyone on the mainland. The NCR took offence to this, the oversensitive prissies, and decided to take no chances with the Navarro survivors. The BoS joined in the conflict, and this one-sided slaughter came to be known as the NCR-Enclave War.

It's interesting to note that, despite it being their HQ, the Enclave did not die at the Oil Rig; the attack on Camp Navarro as described above occurred years after the end of Fallout 2. We don't know how powerful the survivors were, but considering that Autumn had fled East with most of the armed forces, one could give an educated guess of 'not very'.

The NCR didn't just kick an enemy who'd already admitted defeat; they massacred what was presumably almost exclusively civilians.

Yes but i mean, now in in the future, since enclave has been beaten 2 times, they'd not be isolated from the outside world, and they would be irriated aswell, after spending atleast a generation in the wasteland rendering the FEV genocide useless if they too wish to stay alive. the Enclave's main goal would now be to restore america, Mutants are sterile, they will be extinct in due time, Enclave only need to assert themself as a power player, alongside NCR for example, just to have control over America when it is restored.

I know that NCR despises Enclave, but If we look past that, and somehow a truce was created, which i believe could be done easy (Just spit balling, but Enclave helps rid every single BoS outpost for example... I mean BoS can sign a truce with NCR in New Vegas, And I think that makes less sense than the Enclave)


I know about the war, NCR and BoS joined and attacked Navarro, and Enclave sustained heavy losses, But this was under the Leadership of Richardsson, I bet a new leader could convince through diplomacy they were simply following orders, but now have changed ideals.

I think that in order to preserve the american ideals, it makes sense for the Enclave to be a part of a faction like NCR, but if you Disagree, I understand, but i think it would be quite reasonable, considering the years that passed since the oilrig.

 

[Brivoo]

I think that in order to preserve the american ideals, it makes sense for the Enclave to be a part of a faction like NCR, but if you Disagree, I understand, but i think it would be quite reasonable, considering the years that passed since the oilrig.

It's all well and good to discuss the 'what if's of a non-bigoted Enclave, but the truth is that the moment they abandon their ideals, they may as well be an entirely different group.

I suppose that, yes, if the Enclave forgo about its roots, its goals, its beliefs and put aside its grievances with the NCR it would be willing to cooperate; if the NCR forgot its history, its war and its current goals, then it would accept.

The Enclave is dead, there's no two ways about it. Supposing a sufficient number of its members got back together to become a major power in the Wasteland, it could have one of two outcomes:

A. They decide to leave their history behind them, in which case I highly doubt they'd keep the name;

B. They got back together to give this Enclave thing one more shot, in which case most of the stuff above in non-applicable.

Either way, I still find it unlikely that they'd want to work for the people who destroyed them, but seeing how it already happened once at Hoover Dam (if only because of the Courier), I'll simply come back to my other point: The NCR wouldn't want them. They hate them, and if they didn't outright persecute them then they would forbid passage into their territory; the hostile attitude would be infectious and if the two didn't eventually end up going to war for a second time, they would at the very least not work with each other.

On another note, the BoS is practically dead as it is, but even if the Enclave did take on it they wouldn't do much damage. It's no longer about an entire military force equipped with technology's cutting edge against a bunch of filthy wastelanders; it's about a few stragglers that are making the best from the scraps they have left against a world that has looted and learned from their remains.

The BoS signs the truce because it has no choice; though it takes the Courier to let them see that, the NCR has them by the balls. Either they fade away on their own terms, or the NCR will have them die in disgrace.

 

[Draitex]

It's all well and good to discuss the 'what if's of a non-bigoted Enclave, but the truth is that the moment they abandon their ideals, they may as well be an entirely different group.

I suppose that, yes, if the Enclave forgo about its roots, its goals, its beliefs and put aside its grievances with the NCR it would be willing to cooperate; if the NCR forgot its history, its war and its current goals, then it would accept.

The Enclave is dead, there's no two ways about it. Supposing a sufficient number of its members got back together to become a major power in the Wasteland, it could have one of two outcomes:

A. They decide to leave their history behind them, in which case I highly doubt they'd keep the name;

B. They got back together to give this Enclave thing one more shot, in which case most of the stuff above in non-applicable.

Either way, I still find it unlikely that they'd want to work for the people who destroyed them, but seeing how it already happened once at Hoover Dam (if only because of the Courier), I'll simply come back to my other point: The NCR wouldn't want them. They hate them, and if they didn't outright persecute them then they would forbid passage into their territory; the hostile attitude would be infectious and if the two didn't eventually end up going to war for a second time, they would at the very least not work with each other.

On another note, the BoS is practically dead as it is, but even if the Enclave did take on it they wouldn't do much damage. It's no longer about an entire military force equipped with technology's cutting edge against a bunch of filthy wastelanders; it's about a few stragglers that are making the best from the scraps they have left against a world that has looted and learned from their remains.

The BoS signs the truce because it has no choice; though it takes the Courier to let them see that, the NCR has them by the balls. Either they fade away on their own terms, or the NCR will have them die in disgrace.

Yeah i don't suspect to see that alliance either, it was just a musing of mine.

 

[Gizmojunk]

We need a new word for 'roleplay', one that doesn't mean playing the role.

 

[Black Angel]

We need a new word for 'roleplay', one that doesn't mean playing the role.

It's sad how people often confuse a traditional role-play with role-playing games rooted in Pen&Paper...

The words of Ulysees rings even more true here, "Who are you, that do not know your history?"

 

[Dr Fallout]

We need a new word for 'roleplay', one that doesn't mean playing the role.

There's no way we can make a term defining roleplay without seeming like this.

Role play is the ***** however it is not *****, nor is it **** and while ***** seems like role playing it's not because it's badly written...

 

[CT Phipps]

I'd like the Enclave to return but I'd like them to be portrayed as less like the Galactic Empire and more like Nazis.

I.e. Pathetic waste of space.

I'd like, for instance, to go to NCR and find a bunch of skinhead Raiders with American flag circle tattoos using scrappy beat-up Power Armor. And have people talk about Neo-Enclavers with the same eye-rolling disdain as white supremacists in the real world.

Basically, make it a failed ideology which seems hard to stamp out.

 

[Walpknut]

That sounds awful. I bet Bethesda will probably use it.

 

[CT Phipps]

That sounds awful. I bet Bethesda will probably use it.

The Enclave is a bunch of murderous evil Brotherhood of Steel members and Amercian Nazis. I think I'd rather they be shown that way than treat them as some sort of super-group ready to rise up and take over the world at any time.

 

[Walpknut]

Oh my god, this is What bethesda gave to the franchise....

I rather have the enclave be what they where in New Vegas, a disappeared group that was destroyed close to half a century prior. Maybe have a few remnants or abandoned outposts, but to go full Ken Levine + JJ Abrahams heavy handed and have Neo Enclavers just sounds like bad fan fic.

 

[CT Phipps]

Oh my god, this is What bethesda gave to the franchise....

I rather have the enclave be what they where in New Vegas, a disappeared group that was destroyed close to half a century prior. Maybe have a few remnants or abandoned outposts, but to go full Ken Levine + JJ Abrahams heavy handed and have Neo Enclavers just sounds like bad fan fic.

I think of it as an important part of the lore. Even if the Enclave itself was only a minor bunch of weirdos on an oil rig, I think they represent an idealogy and remnant of the Pre-War America which is worth discussing and making critiques on.

Obviously, this would just be one faction but how else would we use the Enclave?

An army which continues to pop up like Cobra?

 

[Walpknut]

I already told you how to use the Enclave, by being a group that was destroyed decades prior and whose precense being only old members retired and abandoned outposts at the most.

 

[CT Phipps]

I already told you how to use the Enclave, by being a group that was destroyed decades prior and whose precense being only old members retired and abandoned outposts at the most.

Fair enough.

I'm less interested in the West Coast Enclave than the East Coast anyway.