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TorontoReign
Guest
Maybe we should rename this the random theological and political debate thread. 
Asbestos Religion Thread
- Thread starter Alphadrop
- Start date
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
don't take this as an insult but like we say here (roughly translated to english to keep the feeling) Common ill, fool's remedy. or somethign like that. There is things in life in wich you just don't accept such big oles deppending on your outlook, I mean do you sing a contract that has huge loop holes, potential for abuse of those loopholes, overgeneralzied language and very little to support that it will actually come to fruition? NOW, I am not saying everyone should be an atheist, it's everyone choice and they develop their views out of their experiences, everyone has different ways of reacting to everything. and by the way, wasn't this a thread about economical stability, world relationships between nations and how this could end in another big conflict? That's what happens with someone with nothign to say starts using the reliigion card, the debate goes nowhere.Crni Vuk said:
Walpknut said:
Nobody posted in this thread untill this bastion of tolerance and goodwill came in
Moe Canibo said:Sabirah said:
What...da...???
On the side not, organized religion is bad, like really really bad...mkay.
Stop making it out like I'm wrong in every thread walp, I feel like you have a grudge against me for some reason.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
stop feeling attacked, it was Moe Canibo the one I was talking about, Jeezus. deflate that ego a bit.
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TorontoReign
Guest
Calm down folks. Everyone smoke a joint and masturbate to relieve stress.
Sabirah said:
What did people believe in before 622 AD...or 33 AD...or 520 BC...or 1300 BC? What came before is so often more interesting. Keep digging deeper, you never know what you might find.
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TorontoReign
Guest
Sabirah said:.Pixote. said:Sabirah said:
What did people believe in before 622 AD...or 33 AD...or 520 BC...or 1300 BC? What came before is so often more interesting. Keep digging deeper, you never know what you might find.
IMO all religions have some truth to them.
I agree. They all have a purpose. If everyone believed the same it would be a boring world.
Moe Canibo
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Tagaziel said:
Didn't wanna reply any further on this topic but you did a much better job doing so anyway.
I hate those atheists who can't shut up about how great atheism is.
Silverman, Dawkins, those guys.
Yeah, I'm atheist. Of course I think that my own view on the concepts of faith and all that stuff is the best.
And I like discussing it with religious people, preferably in person.
But really, is it necessary to constantly blather about how religion is inherently bad and stupid and that science can do absolutely everything?
Not that I don't agree with those views, but is it so hard to keep conversations about religion (and with religious people) civil?
Sure, sometimes religious fanaticists say stuff that is so outrageously stupid that you just want to punch them, but still, one can keep it nice and civil.
Keep in mind that you're talking to a human person, don't be rude.
And yes, it is rude to keep talking about how your conversational partner is stupid by default and part of a cult that is all about killing and oppression.
Silverman, Dawkins, those guys.
Yeah, I'm atheist. Of course I think that my own view on the concepts of faith and all that stuff is the best.
And I like discussing it with religious people, preferably in person.
But really, is it necessary to constantly blather about how religion is inherently bad and stupid and that science can do absolutely everything?
Not that I don't agree with those views, but is it so hard to keep conversations about religion (and with religious people) civil?
Sure, sometimes religious fanaticists say stuff that is so outrageously stupid that you just want to punch them, but still, one can keep it nice and civil.
Keep in mind that you're talking to a human person, don't be rude.
And yes, it is rude to keep talking about how your conversational partner is stupid by default and part of a cult that is all about killing and oppression.
Organized religion is a cult, because that's more profitable, either in terms of wealth or power. Why do you think the Catholic Church is essentialy a thinly veiled dictatorship? Because that brings in money and political influence.
The problem here is that you equate criticism of religious organizations with criticism of religious people. These are two separate things. I loathe organized religions with a passion and would like to see them burn. At the same time, I have no problem with people being religious, as long as they put some thought into it and reflect on their lives, rather than being mindless consumer drones of whatever McReligion they were born into.
The problem here is that you equate criticism of religious organizations with criticism of religious people. These are two separate things. I loathe organized religions with a passion and would like to see them burn. At the same time, I have no problem with people being religious, as long as they put some thought into it and reflect on their lives, rather than being mindless consumer drones of whatever McReligion they were born into.
Tagaziel said:
The problem is when people actually start to throw all kind of religion in one basked. Like the Catholic church is comparable with Buddhism or Sikhism or Shamanism.
Some Indigenous Australians believe in the concept of "dream time" - The Dreaming is a sacred era in which ancestral Totemic Spirit Beings formed The Creation. - I enjoy to read about this very much despite how realistic or unrealistic it might sound or if I really believe in it. It is very interesting to read about the concept other cultures and people cam up with and how different it is to our own view or what our ancestors came up with (like the druidism before the Roman empire took over Europe). And I would never ever get the idea to call people which really believe in it "dumb" or even "backwards" because I might be some atheist. As long those people have no intention to harm me or convince me from their point of view. I am not talking about you directly. I mean this in general. Because I hear many times only "religion is bad!" without even the try to understand the differences in cultures and why some believe.
The problem here is that most religions want you to convert (or at least submit) to their vision of the world. Sure, individual members might not be cutthroat, but the higher you go in the hierarchy, the more apparent this stance will be.
For example, Christian churches, particularly the RCC. It's effectively the great brakeman of progress and social change, particularly in Poland. Western Europe is much more advanced and secular than my country, where the Church tries to be ever present and gain political and economical control of many aspects of public life.
I might tolerate individuals, but the organizations they support should burn.
For example, Christian churches, particularly the RCC. It's effectively the great brakeman of progress and social change, particularly in Poland. Western Europe is much more advanced and secular than my country, where the Church tries to be ever present and gain political and economical control of many aspects of public life.
I might tolerate individuals, but the organizations they support should burn.
I don't mean to be a backseat mod, but can we get this thread split? The original topic was China and the US, and now we've got both of these discussions going at once.
Thread split per suggestion and covered with asbestos.
Now, mental exercise time: imagine a world with absolutely no religion. With no religious strife etc. Imagine how it would look. Post results.
Now, mental exercise time: imagine a world with absolutely no religion. With no religious strife etc. Imagine how it would look. Post results.
Moe Canibo
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Tagaziel said:
"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world
You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one."
Things would look pretty much the same, I imagine, because religion would be back inside of a year (and if what you're postulating is a human society that had evolved completely free of religion, I honestly don't see that happening). People are wired for herd mentality, they're wired for credulity in perceived authority, they're wired to give authority to those who can make them feel safe and secure, and they're wired not to feel safe and secure in the presence of the feared and the unknown. The guys who explained away the earthquakes and the lightning strikes and the mysteries of the heavens themselves, they guys who provided some sense of order and predictability to life by offering the notion of sacred and inviolable law and even removed the fear of death itself by promising better things to come-- whether because they recognized the utility of it or because they saw a path to power-- they were the ones who got to sit in the big chair. At one time, people needed religion, and our deep psychological structures don't just allow for it, they almost make it inevitable.
If people were to have sprung into existence with the level of sophistication and education achievable today, and if that level of sophistication and education was absolutely ubiquitous, it might be a different story, but I still think there would be those out there who saw a need or an opportunity there, and those willing to agree and to follow them.
Edit: Always remember to spellcheck before you post, kids.
If people were to have sprung into existence with the level of sophistication and education achievable today, and if that level of sophistication and education was absolutely ubiquitous, it might be a different story, but I still think there would be those out there who saw a need or an opportunity there, and those willing to agree and to follow them.
Edit: Always remember to spellcheck before you post, kids.
Nope, didn't do that.Tagaziel said:
I meant specifically the kind of atheists that can't shut up about how wrong personal faith is. Not organized religion but the belief in a deity.
Yes, Silverman doesn't exactly fit in there, ignore him.
Personal faith is horrible when it directly affects other people eg. "I'm Christian, so let's baptise my children and indoctrinate them from the start into Christianity, fuck yeah personal freedoms" or "blood transfusion is bad, don't save my children".
Moe Canibo
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Tagaziel said:
This is one of the biggest problems. Instead of letting the child mature and choose his way via his own reasoning and preference he instantly gets molded after a system wich basics he won't be able to understand for years and years to come.
Like calling a newborn a "A christian child." or "A muslim child." What? Would you call a baby "A communist child" or a "Nationalist child"? Of course you wouldn't, and there's a rather good reason for that, because it's fuckin retarded.